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JRDunassigned
Topic says all I'm asking.
Are there are any definites in philosophy?
Are there are any definites in philosophy?
JRDunassigned said:Topic says all I'm asking.
Are there are any definites in philosophy?
JRDunassigned said:Topic says all I'm asking.
Are there are any definites in philosophy?
JRDunassigned said:Topic says all I'm asking.
Are there are any definites in philosophy?
JRDunassigned said:Topic says all I'm asking.
Are there are any definites in philosophy?
JoeDawg said:Define definite.
apeiron said:this degree of definiteness is imagined
JoeDawg said:Which would make it vague. :)
apeiron said:Yes, and also at the same time asymptotically crisp.
An analogy would grey. We can head towards pure white or pure black, but never reach these limits. So as white or black as we could make things, they will still remain "a shade of grey".
JoeDawg said:That seems like an awfuly arbitrary and artificial definiteness, when the simpler answer is just: No.
That's just a linguistic paradox. Definite is an abstract notion, and you can't apply that to the concrete without some kind of paradox ensuing. (Just like you can't 'observe' nothing, or an infinitely long line). 1+1=2 makes sense, and is useful, in the absract, but try applying that to concrete things and you run into the problem that you can't really have 2 identical things. Even assuming they are exactly equal to each other, they are still distinct. We ignore this paradox most of the time, but it is still there.apeiron said:If it definitely isn't (your simple no) then that becomes a definite truth that contradicts your answer.
Of course, people will then just protest that 1 is 1 by definition not process. But that is subjective - it is what a human wants to believe rather than what a human has actually measured.
I'd say denial is different from honest doubt. Descarte assumed honesty as part of his rationalism.Anyway, everything can be doubted, even the fact we are cartesian doubters (though the reasonableness of extreme doubting of course is questionable).
JoeDawg said:But what you are describing are two different processes. Abstractly, 1 is a precise definition, concretely its a vague tool for measurement. So both are true.
If it is purely abstract, then it is entirely definitional. Some definitions are more precise than others.apeiron said:Of course there are these two levels. And the discussion was about what you call the abstract level - what can "objectively" be known as definite through logical argument.
JoeDawg said:If it is purely abstract, then it is entirely definitional. Some definitions are more precise than others...
And limits are entirely abstract, as they represent something that doesn't exist.
Absolute zero is a definition.
0.000000001 Kelvin is something that could be measured.
JoeDawg said:And limits are entirely abstract, as they represent something that doesn't exist.
And thus are not objective. They are arbitrary and completely dependent on the assumptions one chooses to make.apeiron said:And strangely this is a point I have made repeatedly in past posts. The limits of dichotomies are precisely what cannot exist I've said. They are the boundaries that systems cannot reach in their asymptotic development.
So returning to grey => black~white as a simple metaphor. Pure black and pure white would be the boundary states that grey could approach but not actually become. Because - quite logically - if grey turned into black, then black would exist and could no longer be considered a limit to greyness. And this would be an abstract definitional truth in your terms - arising out of a concrete experience of the world perhaps, but now being stated as an axiom of a logic.
JoeDawg said:And thus are not objective. They are arbitrary and completely dependent on the assumptions one chooses to make.
And where do those reasons come from? We choose axioms that we feel correspond to whatever it is we wish to talk about. But that choice is based on a subjective assessment of our vague descriptive world.apeiron said:Usually we would expect reasons for the choices we make.
apeiron said:Or discrete~continuous. If things are discrete, they can't be continuous and vice versa.
I recommend an introductory course in philosophy, which will detail the difference between an abstract rational argument, and an empirical investigation. The difference is pretty central to any understanding of modern... or even ancient philosophy.apeiron said:Your argument is all over the shop.
Glad I never said that then. Maybe you need reading glasses.The fact that choices are subjective does not make them arbitrary
The making choices would be the arbitrary part, the testing them against the world would be the subjective part... but I repeat myself...We make choices and test them against the world,
Clearly, but that doesn't mean I'm all over any shops, its just means you don't understand.I really have no idea what you are trying to argue here.
The fact you can construct dichotomies is not the least bit impressive. In fact, you could construct an endless number of dichotomies, ranging from cat and notcat to dog and notdog. Its a straight forward matter of identity... of definition. The fact that not-cat covers a helluvalot more territory doesn't change the fact its just true by definition. And cat/not cat is quite useful... if you are a cat owner.So these two complementary states seem like philosophical definites.
WaveJumper said:QFT - fields and 'particles'.
JoeDawg said:The fact you can construct dichotomies is not the least bit impressive. In fact, you could construct an endless number of dichotomies, ranging from cat and notcat to dog and notdog. Its a straight forward matter of identity... of definition. The fact that not-cat covers a helluvalot more territory doesn't change the fact its just true by definition. And cat/not cat is quite useful... if you are a cat owner.
JoeDawg said:You should look up the difference between rational and empirical... or maybe not.
"Definites" in philosophy refer to concepts or ideas that are considered to be absolute truths or certain knowledge. These are ideas that are not subject to change or interpretation.
This question is a matter of debate among philosophers. Some argue that there are definites, such as mathematical principles or logical truths, while others argue that everything is subject to interpretation and there are no definites.
Philosophers use various methods and theories to determine what can be considered a definite in philosophy. Some use reason and logic, while others rely on empirical evidence or cultural and societal norms.
This is also a matter of debate among philosophers. Some argue that definites are unchanging and timeless, while others argue that they may change as our understanding and perspectives evolve over time.
The existence of definites in philosophy can have significant implications for philosophical theories and beliefs. Some argue that definites provide a foundation for truth and knowledge, while others argue that they can limit critical thinking and exploration of new ideas.