Arranged Marriage: Love vs. Material Benefits

[Justinius]

I apologize if this thread has been overdone.

Arranged marriage is practiced in many religions. People within these religions are betrothed to friends of parents, or other children of friends of parents, etc. However, should marriage not be about love? And if betrothed marriage is not about love, then is it morally wrong? Why have so many people ignored love in marriage in order to marry into money or other material ammenities? Can love grow within these marriages?

 

[Pengwuino]

I answer your question with... another question! Is marriage being about love only the case in certain religions? If so, does it make it morally wrong in religions where its not suppose to be about love?

Why have so many people ignored love in marriage in order to marry into money or other material ammenities?

I think you answered your own question there

 

[Justinius]

In arranged marriage, a parental force is involved in making the decision about the marriage from the man or woman's childhood. Marriage should be about happiness, as when one is married, one spends the rest of his/her life with that person. Therefore, happiness with the partner is key to the survival of the marriage. In love comes happiness. Therefore, marriage should be about love.

In marital love comes marital consecration. If there is no marital love (ie. the two are betrothed), then true consecration cannot be acheived, because intercourse is a gesture of love. If this is the case, then the marriage cannot be completely true. Thus, without love, true consecration is never achieved, meaning the main purpose of marriage is not accomplished.

 

[sneez]

Arranged marriage is the only "correct" marriage as confirmed by science as far as i know. Love does not exists in the meaning of some esotheric something somewhere. There is no "someone special" waiting for anybody. Its all chemistry and its proven that actually dating and living together does damage the system its setup for humans.

which way you want this thread to go? we can talk about the chemistry of love or we can get into the social aspect of it.

sneez

 

[Pengwuino]

Your taking this from a different view then the people who actually practice arranged marriage. It is simply our own opinions that marriage should be about love. Maybe people who do arranged marriages have it in their culture that marriage is not about love.

Lets take business as an example. Some of us, maybe many, might believe that business is not business unless your looking for the cheapest price for your customer, quick '1 night stands' with other businesses in a rough and tumble world. In a different culture, many people might believe business is not at all about prices and quick relationships, but more about forging long term friendships and networking with many people.

Is either view right? We are trained in the western world to believe my first description of business is the correct definition or at least the definition we like to use. Maybe in a different culture they are trained to believe the second example is the correct means of doing things.

And actually to make a better example... maybe to them, the most important thing about a marriage is not being with someone you love or having sex... maybe its about having children that go on to be successful or well mannered or whatever. Maybe what we believe is the goal of a marriage is not the same thing other people believe is the goal of marriage.

 

[Pengwuino]

Arranged marriage is the only "correct" marriage as confirmed by science as far as i know. Love does not exists in the meaning of some esotheric something somewhere. There is no "someone special" waiting for anybody. Its all chemistry and its proven that actually dating and living together does damage the system its setup for humans.

which way you want this thread to go? we can talk about the chemistry of love or we can get into the social aspect of it.

How is it confirmed by science? Dont they just pick whoever they want?

And i think this thread is suppose to be social since he's talken about love.

 

[sneez]

Note that love in the sense poets, movies and in general conversations does not EXISTS. SO what love do you want to talk about ?

 

[Pengwuino]

Well what is this "correct" marriage you talk of and what is the love that actually exists?

 

[sneez]

This is what we know about today.

Scientists are finding that, after all, love really is down to a chemical addiction between people.OVER the course of history it has been artists, poets and playwrights who have made the greatest progress in humanity's understanding of love. Romance has seemed as inexplicable as the beauty of a rainbow. But these days scientists are challenging that notion, and they have rather a lot to say about how and why people love each other.

The falling in love part, is the one I am going to concentrate on because it will show that arranged marriage is the only way!
All relationships, whether they are those of parents with their children, spouses with their partners, or workers with their colleagues, rely on an ability to create and maintain social ties.

I want to make it very simple to keep it short so this is what you need for "love".

two hormones called oxytocin and vasopressin are responsible for falling in love. The intial attraction is related to smell, ie pheromones. Testosteron is related to outside features as well as pheromones production. (this testosteron business is very interesting one).
So actuall what we learn without going into details is that "love" ie the chemical release and forming of dompamine in the brain (the feel good feeling) and hormones is very sterssfull for a body. Body does not by nature want to be in stress. The "love" (stress) is to ensure reproduction!

There are 3 stages in love. 1. The drive, 2. The romance, 3. attachement.
The drive is pretty much the need/want to reproduce
the romance is to narrow it down to one person (there is very interesting chemistry behind this one). This is the one when we fell "oooh, this one is the one i want! "
the attachement is concerned with descreasy of testosteron in males and changind "smell" (feromones) for females to ensure protection for the kids, ie to make sure that the famle is going to be taken care of by the male.

If we date and all the crazy stuff. If we try to abuse the body to keep falling in love and out if we keep the brain releasing hormones of love but than socially break it, the brain will create tolerance, and plus it not going to be nothing new for the brain. The experience goes down the mechanism is "overridden by social system which results in "crippled" minds of youth.

Ever wondered why first love is the stronges ? !

Thats why arranged marriage partners have NO choice but to fall in love! Its chemistry. The hormones get released and that's it. It math ! there is no way out of it.

Note i kept is i think too simple to make it short, if you want i give you link to go to to read upon the beauty of chemistry of love.

sneez

 

[Kerrie]

The one flaw I see in an arranged marriage is those who are doing the arranging. They do not necessarily know what's best for their children when it comes to love for the opposite sex because the love between a parent and child are different then the love two equals have for one another.

The one thing about arranged marriages I can see is that it "forces" two people to get along and make the marriage work. Not sure I would like that now since in my culture we are allowed a freedom to leave an abusive relationship if necessary. If there is abuse in an arranged marriage (even verbal), that would feel so depressing.

 

[sneez]

Actually what i have read its the same love chanelled (interpretted by the brain differently).

Arranged marriage must work better than random encounter for the previous reasons and if we look at societies who do have arranged marriage they have much lover divorce rates, less rape, less single mothers etc.

Its hard for us to understands since we think its so hard to find the right person on our own. But there is no "right" person in the sense we use it. There is "right" person in terms of pheromons and other chemistry.

Dont get me wrong the issue is very complicated and other social and personal (psychological) factors are in play. What I am talking about is just the "falling in love" part.

Actually why men do not fall in love with their mothers (unless some psychic illness) is that familiy members release pheromones which do "stink" to our brain. We cannot possibly think of familiy member as a sexuall object. (I know about Freud but that is proven to be nonsense).

Arranged marriage is not "unfreedom" and stuff. ON the contrary. The two automatically fall in love without having much choice unless the pheromones are totally wrong.

 

[Rabid]

Arranged marriage must work better than random encounter for the previous reasons and if we look at societies who do have arranged marriage they have much lover divorce rates, less rape, less single mothers etc.

Violence is a concern frequently cited as one of the key problems by Western non-governmental organisations. A recent report by Amnesty International estimated that at least one third of Turkish women are victims of domestic violence in which they are "hit, raped and, in some cases, killed or forced to commit suicide"...

The female employment rate is meanwhile the worst in Europe, exacerbated by female illiteracy and poor education. One in every eight girls is out of school, often pushed into arranged marriages at a young age.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/3681494.stm

This is just one example. I am sure there are many more.

Just because women don't get divorced that doesn't mean they don't want one. There are other factors to consider in the divorce rate of different countries; which include the stigma of divorce, womens rights, education and discrimination.

In most marriages in the US today both man and woman have an education and work. The stigma of divorce is all but dead and women have stonger presence in the workplace than ever before. This makes it very easy for women to seek divorce as opposed to earlier decades or countries where women aren't as fortunate to be in such a position.

 

[sneez]

"In most marriages in the US today both man and woman have an education and work. The stigma of divorce is all but dead and women have stonger presence in the workplace than ever before. This makes it very easy for women to seek divorce as opposed to earlier decades or countries where women aren't as fortunate to be in such a position."

Most of the women who get divorced for other them money which is #1 reason cite as very important factor "bad smell" of their husband. Research shows that its a pheromons who make it impossible for women to say with man. Many of that is cause with birth control pills as reaserch shows.

About bbc i would not believe everything you read there. However, to partially agree with you, those countries have the lowest litteracy rates and ppl have their problems. Nontheless, arranged marriage is the best option of a marriage, regardless if some nation thinks that instant sexuall gratification and when i hit 30 i want to get married attitude will do it with the ideal marriage.

Man is one of the 3% mamals who are monogamist. The problem is that man have both mechanisms; those of polygamist mamals and those of monogamist. If a man chooses to use his polygamist mechanism it overrides the monogamistic one and vice versa. Actually research shows that man is monogamist by nature with the chemistry process of love suited for monogamy.

US has by statistic probably the worst divorce rates. I am not going to even go into feminism and stuff which is destroying this society. Famales misunderstanding their nature etc...

sneez

 

[Minorail]

I think so too.

 

[El Hombre Invisible]

To keep on topic, all marriages are arranged - I've never seen a spontaneous wedding. So there.

 

[Felixiass]

Marry the one you really love

 

[Sadmemo]

what's the link between arranged marriages and the 'problem' of feminism?

I think you should have answer in your mind already!

 

[Kerrie]

Note from the Admin:

Keep this on topic, or it will be closed. No more discussions of feminism or insulting back and forth.

 

[El Hombre Invisible]

Now I'll never, ever know.

 

[Evo]

I apologize if this thread has been overdone.

Arranged marriage is practiced in many religions. People within these religions are betrothed to friends of parents, or other children of friends of parents, etc. However, should marriage not be about love? And if betrothed marriage is not about love, then is it morally wrong? Why have so many people ignored love in marriage in order to marry into money or other material ammenities? Can love grow within these marriages?

Throughout history, marriage was mostly arranged, it has only been in recent history that marriage for love became the norm, although it's more common in westernized cultures.

 

[Felixiass]

I think love comes from friendship, it grows through closeness, sympathy.
My 'yes' is there to answer justinius's question, love still can always grow within those marriages.
'Matched' or 'Un-matched' is only the reason which s/he uses to explain for the love that has not grown much enough or that it hasn't been well recognized or especially when the desire from both has been completely out.
Marrying someone you don't love might bring you unhappiness at first, but gradually you sure can also find a lot of things you like from your behalf. We are not weeds or stones and that's why.

 

[sneez]

Well "love" we all dream about is not happening but only with release of oxytocin which in turn by other hormones releases dopamine. Theat produces sort of "opium" in the brain which make us feel good... Ever wonder why first time in love one feels almost like "high" ? Or why the saying why ones in love are not in this world?

This state of love is very stressfull for the body. Body does not want to be in stress by its design. The longest researches could find this hormones is 28 monts. THats the only longest case. Usually love dissipates very quickly for the reason of it being a stress for body which has a purpose of procreating!

Thats why "love" disaapears after a while. There is however a stage called attachement. This stage is for couples who has been together beyond the stage of "sexual desire", ie. love. This stages creates bonds through release of other hormones but this stage is formed even during initial "animalistic" love stage. Its created by oxytocin.

This bond is also found in mothers who gave birth. Right after the baby "comes out" the brain releases oxytocin in the baby's brain and in the mothers brain. Thats why women gets attached to a baby more than a man generally and that's by nature the function of a women is to rise children.

Ever wondered why man when in love becomes less "manly". Its due to descrease of testosteron in the body. Which is a nature's way of ensuring the protection of female when having child. THis way the man is not going to go fight someone or take risks which would lead to death of famele and the baby.

NOTE for those who have some problems with their preconceived ideas of love. I am desrcibing only the most basic chemistry on our "animal" level. Of cause there is more to it when we apply social environment and psychology of individual.

sneez

 

[Sadmemo]

Well, very nice!

But after I go through the whole thread for a while, I think your marvelous thread should be in biology forum instead.

Sometimes arranged marriage can 'damage' both's feelings but if that is the way for things to move on better, something should be done and accepted.
Good luck! Be happy!

 

[sneez]

Hmm that's very interesting suggestion. Let me ask you how much is/is not philosophy linked with sciences? I think it is becoming less and less clear cut with the new theories derived from empirical sciences.

It just might be that we humans take more time accept things socially than mentally. Meaning we like to think of love as something esotherical/something of its own, someone special waithing for us and that sort of stuff. But it just might be that is other dimension of our psychology which need this kind of stuff for our humanity to survive.

maybe..

sneez

 

[russ_watters]

Arranged marriage is the only "correct" marriage as confirmed by science as far as i know. Love does not exists in the meaning of some esotheric something somewhere. There is no "someone special" waiting for anybody. Its all chemistry and its proven that actually dating and living together does damage the system its setup for humans.

Didn't you just contradict yourself? If its all chemistry, then how can pre-arranged marriages be "correct"? If chemistry determines whether I'll fall in love, then arranged marriages are un-natural.

 

[sneez]

you have to read what i posted correctly. The chemistry is setup the way that arranged marriage utilizes that system the best.

 

[El Hombre Invisible]

"Arranged marriage is the only "correct" marriage as confirmed by science as far as i know."

Which branch of science is this again? I'm rusty and need to read up on it.

 

[sneez]

sure let me give it to you:

[PLAIN]http://www.oxytocin.org/[/URL]
http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn4377 [/URL]
[PLAIN] [PLAIN]http://www.mcmanweb.com/love_lust.htm [/URL]
http://www.ez2shopmall.com/articles/personals7.html [/URL]
[PLAIN] http://www.economist.com/printedition/displayStory.cfm?Story_ID=2424049 [/URL]
There are many more articles I've read but to start with you can read these...

sneez

 

[El Hombre Invisible]

Thanks for links. I didn't read much of them; I just searched for the words 'arranged' and 'marriage'. I found only the Economist to touch on a vaguely related idea which is that possible marriage partners may be screened for genetic disadvantages. It does not seem to suggest that anyone other than the would-be spouse would make the decision. This is not what is usually meant by arranged marriage, in which the match is made by some third person, usually parents or guardians. If by 'arranged' you mean planned in some way, then see my earlier post about the lack of sponteneous weddings. Like I said, I only scanned them, so maybe you can point out to be the relevant bits about arranged marriage being confirmed by science as correct, or bung me some more links to search through.

 

[sneez]

well if you read them how "love" works and what it is for a human body in terms of changes etc you will see that arranged marriage is what is meant (as far as science is concerned as of right now) for humans to have.

There are many types of arranged marriage. But i assumed to be a marriage without prior involvement of two subjects on any than social level.

Actaully if you read it you will learn what is this www.nomarriage.com [/URL] website about and you will see directly how much true this stuff is.

sneez

 

[El Hombre Invisible]

well if you read them how "love" works and what it is for a human body in terms of changes etc you will see that arranged marriage is what is meant (as far as science is concerned as of right now) for humans to have.

There are many types of arranged marriage. But i assumed to be a marriage without prior involvement of two subjects on any than social level.

Actaully if you read it you will learn what is this www.nomarriage.com [/URL] website about and you will see directly how much true this stuff is.

sneez[/QUOTE]
Mmmm, I'm not getting that from any of those links. Even if you reject entirely the idea of love, there are still many other selfish reasons for you personally to choose your spouse. Unless these too are scientifically debunked, I don't see how you can infer that arranged marriage is scientifically deemed beneficial.

 

[Kerrie]

Mmmm, I'm not getting that from any of those links. Even if you reject entirely the idea of love, there are still many other selfish reasons for you personally to choose your spouse. Unless these too are scientifically debunked, I don't see how you can infer that arranged marriage is scientifically deemed beneficial.

I agree with this too. Making the statement that "arranged marriages are deemed scientifically beneficial" sounds like a hardcore opinion rather then scientific fact. Especially when the whole concept of arranged marriages stem from a handful of cultures of the many on this earth.

 

[learningphysics]

Thats why arranged marriage partners have NO choice but to fall in love! Its chemistry. The hormones get released and that's it. It math ! there is no way out of it.

Are you saying that if we take any man and woman that have not previously fallen in love...put them together...they are guaranteed to fall in love??

I really don't understand this. Seems like you're saying the first time a male actually sees a female he'll fall in love with her?

 

[El Hombre Invisible]

Pretty much sums me up.

 

[sneez]

well guys you don't seem to be readin any of the post i posted. You just feeling insecure about your preconceived ides of love. Its statistically proven that "love" is what most of the ppl "believe" in and it seems that any of you are open minded to see through this.

So explain to me where do you DO NOT see the connection of the chemistry i described and the articles and arranged marriages. Give me argument to work with rather than blindly rejecting it without supporting your statements.

Its very clear that arranged marriage is the ONLY CORRECT way to setup a family. Maybe if you come up with your own research to prove me wrong that would help me a lot but all the articles i found support my view.

sneez