Axial field from a pointed tip inside cylinder with flows

In summary, the problem is about an experimental setup involving a high voltage tip inside an earthed cylinder, producing a radial discharge and generating ions that are then carried out by an air flow. There is an additional air flow that affects the electrical field, causing it to change in value. The solution to this problem involves using equations for the electric field and charge density inside the inner cylinder, but the method for solving these equations is unclear. The poster is seeking help with solving the equations and confirming the validity of their approach.
  • #1
Madoro
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0

Homework Statement



Hello, I have an experimental problem that I don´t know how to express theoretically.
It consists on a tip at high voltage inside an earthed cylinder, where a discharge is produced. The discharge is radial, since is the shortest distance to the wall, and produces ions, which are dragged out by an air flow f1, generating an electrical field in the axial direction Ex1 (fig. discharge.png).
There is an extra air flow f2 that joins f1 into a surrounding earthed cylinder, and then the field by the ions changes its value, Ex, since the flow is bigger and is further away from the discharge.

I have no clue neither how to calculate Ex1 nor Ex2. The attempt at a solution

I have tried to solve it supposing the discharge as a charged ring, similarly to how is done in this thread:
https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=497126&highlight=radial+field+flow
Therefore, the electrical field at the output of the inner cylinder would be:
[itex]E_{x1}=\frac{q}{4\pi \epsilon_0}\frac{L_i}{(L_i^2+R_i^2)^{3/2}}[/itex]

and therefore in the outer:
[itex]E_x=E_{x1}+\frac{q}{4\pi \epsilon_0}\frac{L_o}{(L_o^2+R_o^2)^{3/2}}[/itex]

obtaining the solution shown in Ex.png.

First of all, is a good approximation the rings to the solution?
and secondly, why the axial field does this increase in the curve? should´t it be constantly decreasing?

Any help would be really appreciated, since I’m stuck here for long time now.
Thanks in advance.
 

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  • #2
Second attempt:

I divide the problem in two parts, first inside the inner cylinder and then in the bigger one. I'll begin in the inner one where discharge is started
I suppose a radial discharge from the tip to the walls:
[itex]E_r=\frac{U}{r Log(R_i/R_{tip})}[/itex]
being [itex]U[/itex] the applied voltage and [itex]R_{tip}[/itex] the radius of the needle's tip.

The governing equations (all in cylindrical coordinates) are the Poisson equation for the field inside the inner cylinder:
[itex]\frac{1}{r}\frac{\partial (r E_r)}{\partial r}+\frac{\partial E_z}{\partial z}=\frac{\rho}{\epsilon_0}[/itex] (1)

and the convection-diffussion equation for the charge density:
[itex]\frac{\partial \rho}{\partial t}=D_i \nabla^2 \rho + \nabla \cdot (u \rho)=0[/itex] (2)

where [itex]D_i[/itex] is the diffusion coefficient and is so small that this term can be neglected. Velocities in axial and radial directions are:
[itex]u_r=Z_i E_r[/itex]
[itex]u_z=u_g+Z_i E_z[/itex]
with [itex]u_g[/itex] the [itex]f_1[/itex] flow velocity.

Therefore eq. (2):
[itex]\frac{1}{r}\frac{\partial (r Z_i E_r \rho)}{\partial r}+\frac{\partial ((u_g+ Z_i E_z) \rho))}{\partial z}=0[/itex] (2b)

Solving eq. (1) and (2b):

[itex]\frac{\partial E_z}{\partial z}=\frac{\rho}{\epsilon_0}[/itex] (3)

[itex]Z_i E_r \frac{\partial \rho}{\partial r}+(u_g+ Z_i E_z) \frac{\partial \rho}{\partial z} + \rho Z_i \frac{\partial E_z}{\partial z}=0[/itex] (4)

Substituting eq. (3) into eq.(4):
[itex]Z_i E_r \frac{\partial \rho}{\partial r}+(u_g+ Z_i E_z) \frac{\partial \rho}{\partial z} + \frac{\rho^2 Z_i}{\epsilon_0}=0[/itex] (4b)


Therefore I have a system of 2 equations (3 & 4b) with 2 unknowns ([itex]E_z[/itex] and [itex]\rho(z,r)[/itex]), but I'm totally stuck on how to solve it.

Please, correct me if my approach of the problem is not correct or there is any mistake in the resolution. I could use some software to solve the system of equations, but I'm not sure if they are resoluble.

Thanks in advance.
 

FAQ: Axial field from a pointed tip inside cylinder with flows

What is an axial field?

An axial field is a type of magnetic field that has a direction parallel to the axis of a cylindrical object. It is created by an electric current flowing through a wire or by the movement of charged particles in a fluid.

How is an axial field created from a pointed tip inside a cylinder?

An axial field can be created from a pointed tip inside a cylinder by using a pointed electrode, such as a needle or wire, placed at the center of the cylinder. When a current or fluid flows through the cylinder, the pointed tip creates a concentrated electric field that generates an axial magnetic field.

What is the significance of flows in creating an axial field?

The presence of flows, such as a current or fluid, is necessary for the creation of an axial field. The movement of charged particles in the flow helps to generate the electric field needed to produce the axial magnetic field.

How is the strength of an axial field affected by the size of the cylinder?

The strength of an axial field is directly proportional to the size of the cylinder. A larger cylinder will typically have a stronger axial field due to the increased surface area available for the flow of current or fluid.

What are some practical applications of axial fields from a pointed tip inside a cylinder with flows?

Axial fields from a pointed tip inside a cylinder with flows have various practical applications, such as in electromagnets, MRI machines, and magnetic particle imaging. They are also used in industrial processes such as metalworking and plasma cutting. Additionally, they have potential for use in renewable energy technologies, such as wave energy converters.

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