Block and wedge problem -- Where am I going wrong?

In summary, the "Block and wedge problem" explores the challenges of understanding the forces acting on a block resting on a wedge. The confusion often arises from miscalculating the components of gravitational force and the normal force, leading to incorrect conclusions about equilibrium and motion. It emphasizes the importance of properly resolving vectors and applying Newton's laws to accurately analyze the system.
  • #1
NTesla
181
23
Homework Statement
Kindly see the attached pic for the Question. I'm solving part b of the question.
Relevant Equations
F = ma
This question is from the book Kleppner and Kolenkow Q 3.8:
IMG_20240611_181455.jpg


___________________________________
My attempt is posted here:
IMG_20240611_182304.jpg


___________________________________

The value of a(minimum) that I'm getting is different from the official solution. The official solution is posted here:

IMG_20240611_182538.jpg


___________________________________

Here's 2 problems that I'm encountering:

(a) The value of a(minimum) that I'm getting is different from the official answer. If my calculations are wrong, I'm not able to find out where am I going wrong. Kindly help.

(b) From the equation of N(in my calculation), if theta tends to zero, then N tends to mg. This makes sense to me.
However, in the official answer(posted above), if we try to see what happens to value of N as theta tends to zero, then N becomes mg/mu(the symbol of coefficient of friction). This doesn't make sense to me. So, which equation of N is correct ?

___________________________________

I understand that in the official answer, the equations have been written from inertial frame of reference. I understand those equations and they are right according to me. This is causing a conundrum, that if I'm finding the official equations right(which I do), then the value of a(minimum) must be right as given in the official answer. But I'm also not able to find where my equations are wrong(if they are wrong), leading to different value of a(minimum).
 

Attachments

  • IMG_20240611_181455.jpg
    IMG_20240611_181455.jpg
    28.5 KB · Views: 22
Physics news on Phys.org
  • #2
Your solution looks correct to me. The error in the official solution is here:

1718116010372.png
 
  • Like
Likes MatinSAR and NTesla
  • #3
Screen Shot 2024-06-11 at 9.07.48 AM.png
The solution is wrong. Look at the equation, part (b) vertical direction, $$N\sin\theta+f_s\cos\theta-mg=0.\tag{1}$$Now look at the solution's two FBDs on the right.

In the first FBD, angle ##\theta## is defined as the angle between the horizontal and the incline. Equation (1) was derived from the second FBD. In it angle ##\theta## is labeled as the angle between the vertical and the incline which makes the two FBDs inconsistent. Equation (1) should have the sine and cosine swapped to be consistent with the definition of ##\theta## as the angle of the incline.

By the way, you have posted here enough times to appreciate the advantage of using LaTeX to write equations. To learn how, please click "LaTeX Guide", lower left above "Attach files". It's easy to learn and will serve you well.

I see that @TSny beat me to the punch.
 
  • Like
Likes MatinSAR, berkeman and NTesla
  • #4
kuruman said:
I see that @TSny beat me to the punch.
Only by a second or two. Amazing.
 
  • #5
TSny said:
Only by a second or two. Amazing.
It could have been simultaneous if both of us were at rest relative to the PF server when we posted. :oldsmile:
 
  • Like
  • Haha
Likes gmax137, TSny and berkeman
  • #6
@kuruman, @TSny : Thanks for the prompt help.

Earlier when I used to upload pics of my hand written equations in this forum, it used to be sharp and clear enough to be read. But this time, after reading your advice of using latex, I was checking whether the uploaded pics were clear and sharp or not. I observed that the pics that I have on my phone (which I uploaded here) are quite sharp, but after having uploaded, the pics are not sharp at all. I don't know why that has happened. The picture quality has been reduced to the point of not being clear enough to be read.

I'm typing this on phone, don't have access to desktop/laptop, & as there were a full page of equations and calculations, that was the reason why I preferred to upload the pic of written page, rather than typing each line of calculation. It was efficient compared to typing the whole page in latex, that too on the phone. I hadn't encountered low upload quality earlier, but only this time. In some of my earlier posts, I did write in LaTeX when there were only a few equations to write. I also hadn't anticipated that the compression algorithm in this forum would render the image quality too difficult to read.

If uploading pics in original quality is possible, then kindly let me know the way to do so. If not, then I'll try to write using latex from next time onwards, wherever necessary.
 
Last edited:
  • #7
Here is a test scribbled work for comparison posted directly from my phone. It’s pretty well-defined. Using a black pen and enlarging the posted photo to fill the page helps.
IMG_2696.jpeg
 
  • Like
Likes NTesla
  • #8
NTesla said:
as there were a full page of equations and calculations, that was the reason why I preferred to upload the pic of written page, rather than typing each line of calculation.
One reason we prefer typed in equations is for ease of quoting. We may need to make reference to a particular one of your equations. It will help, therefore, if you number them all.
We may also want to post an edited version of an equation, which again is easier if we can copy the original. Since it often happens that there are multiple posts in response to the one original, it can be less work in total if the original is copyable line by line.
 
  • Like
Likes erobz

FAQ: Block and wedge problem -- Where am I going wrong?

What is the block and wedge problem?

The block and wedge problem typically refers to a physics scenario involving a block resting on an inclined wedge. The problem often involves analyzing the forces acting on the block, including gravitational force, normal force, and friction, to determine the block's motion or equilibrium conditions.

How do I set up the free body diagram for the block?

To set up the free body diagram for the block, start by identifying all the forces acting on it. These typically include the weight of the block acting downward, the normal force from the wedge acting perpendicular to the surface, and any frictional forces if applicable. Draw vectors to represent each force, ensuring to label their magnitudes and directions clearly.

What equations should I use to solve the problem?

You will commonly use Newton's second law (F = ma) to set up equations for the block. For a block on an incline, you'll often decompose the gravitational force into components parallel and perpendicular to the surface of the wedge. If friction is present, you will also need to include the frictional force in your equations.

Where might I be making mistakes in my calculations?

Common mistakes include incorrect decomposition of forces, miscalculating the normal force, neglecting friction when it is present, or not applying the correct coordinate system. Additionally, ensure that you are consistent with the signs of your forces and accelerations based on your chosen coordinate system.

How can I check if my answer is reasonable?

To check if your answer is reasonable, you can perform dimensional analysis to ensure that your units are consistent. Additionally, consider the physical situation: does the direction of motion make sense? You can also compare your results with special cases (e.g., no friction or a vertical wedge) to see if they align with your expectations.

Similar threads

Replies
4
Views
1K
Replies
37
Views
872
Replies
12
Views
1K
Replies
11
Views
4K
Replies
14
Views
9K
Replies
4
Views
2K
Back
Top