Bravo to Dan McCauley: War on Brats in Cafes

[FredGarvin]

http://www.detnews.com/2005/editorial/0511/20/A23-387307.htm

The owner of A Taste of Heaven, Dan McCauley, said he posted the sign -- at child level, with playful handprints -- in the hope of quieting his tin-ceilinged cafe, where toddlers have been known to sprawl between tables and hurl themselves at display cases for sport.

I'm curious to see what others think about this. I have to admit that I fall on the side of saying BRAVO. While I don't have anything against kids in public, it does make me angry when I see a kid going nuts in a public place and the parents have their blinders on with their "selective hearing."

 

[moose]

This reminds me of when I saw a kid who could not have possibly been older than 4 have a grande coffee at starbucks. Not only that, but it was also 9:30pm!

 

[Evo]

Cafe's and Bistros, nice restaurants are NOT the place for small children. You want to take your kids out to eat and they're too young or too undisciplined for a nice place? Take them someplace appropriate, like McDonald's.

The dumbest thing I read in that story was the mother that said

"I think that the mothers who allow their kids to run around and scream, that's wrong, but kids scream and there is nothing you can do about it. What are we supposed to do, not enjoy ourselves at a cafe?"

Gee, did it ever occur to her that if you want to enjoy yourself at a cafe, not to take your kids, that way others can also enjoy the cafe? I cannot believe some people are that self centered that and think only of themselves. Hey, you bring your kids-you're paying for my meal.

Oh, here's another gem

Cavitt said. "You go to a coffee shop or a bakery for a rest, to relax, and that you would have to worry the whole time about your child doing something that children do -- really what they're saying is they don't welcome children, they want the child to behave like an adult."

How can anyone rest and relax with your kid screaming and bouncing up and down?

 

[Moonbear]

I say good for him! Though, as tempting as it is to say "bind and gag" the kids, that's not truly how I feel. There is an option between that and letting them do whatever they want, which is to teach them to be respectful when out in public. What sort of a place is a coffee shop for children anyway? Pick up your coffee to-go, and head to a park or playground to drink it while the kids can be kids, don't force your kids upon everyone else in the place because you can't be bothered to take them to an appropriate location to play (no kid can sit still that long while the grown-ups just talk...that's just common sense). But if all the people with loud children boycott the place, just wait and see it become populated with the childless set, or the people who found a babysitter and want an hour of quiet to meet up with a friend and talk without the din of children screaming.

And, the way the sign was phrased, there's nothing offensive. That's exactly the way I've heard many parents give instructions to their children..."you need to use your inside voice here." I think it was a very nice way of saying it, actually. Gosh, "no shirt, no shoes, no service" is more harsh than that sign. I'm sure he's not going to miss the customers who take offense at such a sign.

 

[Danger]

I felt obliged to send the following to the newspaper:

Three cheers for Dan McCauley! If the parents of those hideous little noise-bombs want to relax in a restaurant, they should hire a babysitter. What about the rest of us who want to relax without having those unmuffled bugs flying around in our faces?

Well-behaved kids are fine, but those uncontrolled ones make everyone's outing miserable. (Down, Arildno... not that kind of outing.) When I was bartending/waitering I once told a woman to either take her kid outside or shoot it.

 

[Integral]

Good for him! Kids, You spend 5yrs teaching them to walk and talk then the rest of your life telling them to sit down and shut up!

I think any kid under 12 ought to be stored in a barrel and fed through a tube.






(not really)


Kids like any other small animal needs to have some discipline in their life, to not provide this leads to the self centered clowns who think that it is impossible to stop kids from misbehaving. I think my generation has screwed up big time by putting children before all else in family matters. Every person needs to learn at some point in life that they are not the center of the universe. The earlier the better.

 

[mattmns]

Bravo indeed

 

[Math Is Hard]

I'm with the owner on this one. Stick to your guns, Dan! The cafe owner is just telling it like it is, and not everyone wants to hear what he has to say. Tough cookies.

Moms and Dads who bring their well-behaved children in have no reason to be offended by the sign. It's nothing more than a reinforcement of what they are already teaching their kids anyway. I think it's only the parents of the uncontrollable terrors who are making all the fuss about this.

Some parents seem to refuse to believe that their precious little darlings could be viewed by anyone as obnoxious. I've certainly had enough run-ins with wild children at restaurants. The parents don't even care if the child crawls over the top of their booth into mine! If they bother to notice at all they just chuckle at the kid's behavior. They think I should be delighted that their little Joey has taken an interest in me!

 

[rachmaninoff]

With respect, the poll in this thread is deficient in choices. I agree entirely with everyone else in here, but I'm not voting to have people bound and gagged in a cafe.

 

[Danger]

I'm not voting to have people bound and gagged in a cafe.

I wouldn't be caught dead in a Starbucks either, but I still voted for that one. (He did leave out the obvious option of taking the little bastards out back and hucking them into the freezer.)

 

[Moonbear]

With respect, the poll in this thread is deficient in choices. I agree entirely with everyone else in here, but I'm not voting to have people bound and gagged in a cafe.

Well, of course not, that would be disruptive. They should be bound and gagged and tossed in the storage room.

I think the bottom line is that parents should take their kids to kid-appropriate places, and if they need to take them to a place that is supposed to be a quiet gathering place for adults, then they need to teach them to be appropriately behaved so nobody feels the urge to bind and gag them.

 

[ShawnD]

Store owners can do whatever they want. It's their store. If you don't like it, get out.

 

[Pengwuino]

Cafe's and Bistros, nice restaurants are NOT the place for small children. You want to take your kids out to eat and they're too young or too undisciplined for a nice place? Take them someplace appropriate, like McDonald's.

:!) :!) :!) :!) :!) :!) :!) :!) :!)

I have renewed hope in mankind

 

[Pengwuino]

Well, of course not, that would be disruptive. They should be bound and gagged and tossed in the storage room.
I think the bottom line is that parents should take their kids to

I am totally for binding and gagging them. It would be a fun experience for the kid too probably. Something to remember when he's older... possibly in the psychiatrists office.

I would soooooo go out and march and protest and demand a "non-children" section law though. I mean like someone said, there's a no smoking section that discriminates against smokers... why not a no-child section that discriminates against mothers who don't disclipline their kids/know that they belong at mcdonalds.

 

[motai]

You want to take your kids out to eat and they're too young or too undisciplined for a nice place? Take them someplace appropriate, like McDonald's.

Ack! That'll just cause the childhood obesity rate to skyrocket! If these parents nowadays can't control their own children's behavior, how are they going to manage their diet when they are at McDonalds? If they can't discipline them, they sure as well won't make sure that they eat healthy.

It'll just cause another generation of McChildren .

 

[Pengwuino]

It'll just cause another generation of McChildren .

Then feed your kids at home, all problems solved.

 

[FredGarvin]

I was talking about this at work with some people and got a very different response. I was somewhat shocked.

Though, as tempting as it is to say "bind and gag" the kids, that's not truly how I feel. There is an option between that and letting them do whatever they want, which is to teach them to be respectful when out in public.

I was being facetious with the poll responses. I wasn't just going to say "aggree-disagree." That would be snoozeville.

Gee, did it ever occur to her that if you want to enjoy yourself at a cafe, not to take your kids, that way others can also enjoy the cafe? I cannot believe some people are that self centered that and think only of themselves. Hey, you bring your kids-you're paying for my meal.

I almost spit my drink out when I read those quotes as well. I couldn't believe that these people said something like that. Do these people think that their kids really aren't annoying other people because they are their kids? Is that it?

Oh. For the record; I am a total coffee snob. I wouldn't be caught dead in a Starbucks.

 

[franznietzsche]

Ack! That'll just cause the childhood obesity rate to skyrocket! If these parents nowadays can't control their own children's behavior, how are they going to manage their diet when they are at McDonalds? If they can't discipline them, they sure as well won't make sure that they eat healthy.
It'll just cause another generation of McChildren .

Hardly. As kids my brothers, cousins, and I pretty much only ate out at McDonalds. Which is not to say we ate there often, we usually ate at home. But our parents were smart enough to know not to take a half dozen kids under 10 to somewhere nice. I think the only times we ever ate in nice places were religious functions, first communion banquets, a few wedding banquets, etc. And none of us became McChildren. In fact, my grand parents once came to visit and thought I was anorexic. Until we had dinner anyway.

 

[Moonbear]

Hardly. As kids my brothers, cousins, and I pretty much only ate out at McDonalds. Which is not to say we ate there often, we usually ate at home. But our parents were smart enough to know not to take a half dozen kids under 10 to somewhere nice. I think the only times we ever ate in nice places were religious functions, first communion banquets, a few wedding banquets, etc. And none of us became McChildren. In fact, my grand parents once came to visit and thought I was anorexic. Until we had dinner anyway.

That's how I was raised too. McDonald's was a rare treat, and because it was such a treat, we had incentive to behave extremely well so we'd get to go back again. It's a good way to teach a child restaurant manners in a setting where mistakes can be tolerated. Of course, we were also taught proper table manners at home (not to the extent that Evo got grilled on etiquette as a child, but enough to be polite)...we had to eat together as a family, sit up properly at the table, use "please" and "thank you," learn to chew with our mouth closed, etc.

But, I think what motai was getting at is that the types of parents who will let their kid run amok in a cafe or fine restaurant are the same type who will overindulge them on fast food, so telling them to go to McDonald's isn't going to suddenly make them better parents.

 

[franznietzsche]

But, I think what motai was getting at is that the types of parents who will let their kid run amok in a cafe or fine restaurant are the same type who will overindulge them on fast food, so telling them to go to McDonald's isn't going to suddenly make them better parents.

This is probably true.

 

[Gokul43201]

http://www.detnews.com/2005/editorial/0511/20/A23-387307.htm

I'm sure Zz's been to this place (A Taste of Heaven). It's just a couple minutes from his home !

 

[Astronuc]

http://www.detnews.com/2005/editorial/0511/20/A23-387307.htm

Don't forget to respond to the poll.

Do you think it's OK for restaurants to set and enforce rules for misbehaving kids?

As of this morning -
Yes 93.22%
No 6.78%

It is inconsiderate to let one's child or children loose in someone's business establishment and discourteous to the other guests. Either the children behave, or they should be left at home. Rather than McDonalds, the parents could take their children to a park as Moonbear suggested and do a picnic.

The loud cell phone converations are sometimes just as irritating.

 

[FredGarvin]

The loud cell phone converations are sometimes just as irritating.

Oh yeah. That's an entirely other end of the public annoyance spectrum.

There was a deli right down the street from our house on Long Island. They were the only ones that had a sign up behind the counter that said if you were on the phone when it was your turn to order, you weren't going to be helped. I loved it. People still talked on their phones in line though

I keep thinking about the quotes that Evo posted from the article. I am really trying to understand where these people are coming from. Are their attitudes that they have had to deal with screaming kids so the general public has to as well or are they really that self centered that they want what they want no matter the annoyances to other people?

 

[Artman]

I always manage to get a seat in the "Screaming baby section." I don't mind if I choose the seat, the parents at least try and make the child behave, and/or the place is child appropriate.

I think the rule should be that the parents at least attempt to control their brats. My wife has a saying that "You can't teach them in a day." And she is right, but if a child is running amuck and the parent does nothing, assuming the child won't mind them anyway, then kick them out. Maybe then they will start disciplining their future deliquent. I think if the parent sets the child down and tells them to behave at least an effort is being made, even if the child doesn't obey.

I can tolerate naughty children, but bad parenting pisses me off.

"I love people who don't have children who tell you how to parent," said Alison Miller, 35, a psychologist, corporate coach and mother of two. "I'd love for him to be responsible for three children for the next year and see if he can control the volume of their voices every minute of the day."

And I love it when some idiot psychologist says that people without children have no idea how to be a good parent. Giving into the whims of a spoiled child is not good parenting. Children do not know how to behave, they have to be taught how. Children know what they want to do or have, not what they should do or should have. That job should fall to the parent.

 

[Blahness]

"I love people who don't have children who tell you how to parent," said Alison Miller, 35, a psychologist, corporate coach and mother of two. "I'd love for him to be responsible for three children for the next year and see if he can control the volume of their voices every minute of the day."

...LMFAO. People are giving up on Discipline due to some people having abusive parents. SOME. Over-sensitivizing of America is causing this. Discipline and incentive-based-systems would work just fine to control voices. Then again, if your child makes ANY noise, you could get him declared ADHD and stuff him full of Riddelin(sp x.x).

 

[Chi Meson]

I got three young kids, and I'm all for establishments setting rules on kid behavior. And what the heck does becomming a parent have to do with recognizing good parenting? If you can seee the difference between good and bad parenting, then you probably will be a good parent.

Here's something else I've noticed: when with other parents and children, there is often one kid who is grossly missbhaving. Parents are afraid to speak sternly to other people's children. One 4-year-old, nearly ran down my 2-year-old son with a pedal-powered car. I let him have it verbally. The kids parents response was to express anger with me, rather than with their kid.

 

[BobG]

I'm not quite sure I understand the choices in your poll.

Brats should be smothered in sauerkraut and cooked for hours in a crock pot.






Oh! You meant the human kind of brats.

In that case... brats should be smothered in sauerkraut and cooked for hours in a crock pot.

 

[Math Is Hard]

Oh! You meant the human kind of brats.
In that case... brats should be smothered in sauerkraut and cooked for hours in a crock pot.

I agree. This punishment is appropriate for brats of the wurst kind.

 

[Pengwuino]

The loud cell phone converations are sometimes just as irritating.

Oh god yes, people in general shouldn't be allowed in public without a permit.

 

[Danger]

This punishment is appropriate for brats of the wurst kind.

I can't believe you've sunk to this...

 

[Moonbear]

The loud cell phone converations are sometimes just as irritating.

This is where the "children of all ages" part comes in.

I agree. This punishment is appropriate for brats of the wurst kind.

And we're still waiting on that groan smiley...

 

[BobG]

Hardly. As kids my brothers, cousins, and I pretty much only ate out at McDonalds. Which is not to say we ate there often, we usually ate at home. But our parents were smart enough to know not to take a half dozen kids under 10 to somewhere nice. I think the only times we ever ate in nice places were religious functions, first communion banquets, a few wedding banquets, etc. And none of us became McChildren. In fact, my grand parents once came to visit and thought I was anorexic. Until we had dinner anyway.

Alas, even that isn't bearable. You still have to be in the same car with them.

Thank God I got a http://www.wimp.com/brats/ .