Calculate the order of the point

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In summary: So for instance:$$D^3f(\mathbf a) (\mathbf x - \mathbf a)^3 = \sum_i \sum_j \sum_k \frac{\partial^3f(\mathbf a)}{\partial x_i \partial x_j \partial x_k}(x_i-a_i)(x_j-a_j)(x_k-a_k)$$(Sweating)In summary, the conversation revolved around calculating the order of a point $M$ at a given curve $f(x,y)$ and verifying it through the use of Taylor expansion. The order was determined to be $2$, and the formula for the Taylor expansion in multiple variables was discussed, along with the definition of the generalized derivative $D^
  • #1
evinda
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Hello! (Wave)

I want to calculate the order of the point $M$ at the curve $f(x,y) \in \mathbb{R}[x,y]$, when:

$$M(0,1), f=(x^2-1)^2-y^2(3-2y)$$

That's what I have tried:

$$f(x,y)=x^4-2x^2+1-3y^2+2y^3$$

$$f_4(x,y)=x^4$$

$$f_3(x,y)=2y^3$$

$$f_2(x,y)=-2x^2-3y^2$$

$$f_0(x,y)=1$$We check if $M$ is singular.

$$f(0,1)=0$$
$$f_x(x,y)=4x^3-4x$$
$$f_x(0,1)=0$$
$$f_y(x,y)=-6y+6y^2$$
$$f_y(0,1)=0$$

Taylor expansion of $f(x,y)$ at the point $M(0,1)$

$$f(x,y)=f(0,1)+[f_x(0,1)(x-0)+f_y(0,1)(y-1)]+ \dots$$

$$f(x,y)=-2x^2+3(y-1)^2+2(y-1)^3+x^4$$

So, the order of $M$ is $2$.

Could you tell me if it is right or if I have done something wrong? (Thinking)
 
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  • #2
evinda said:
$$f(x,y)=-2x^2+3(y-1)^2+2(y-1)^3+x^4$$

So, the order of $M$ is $2$.

Could you tell me if it is right or if I have done something wrong? (Thinking)

Hii (Smile)

I'm not really aware of anything called "the order of a point", but since your polynomial has $x^4$ as its highest order term, shouldn't the order be $4$? (Wondering)
 
  • #3
I like Serena said:
Hii (Smile)

I'm not really aware of anything called "the order of a point", but since your polynomial has $x^4$ as its highest order term, shouldn't the order be $4$? (Wondering)

According to my notes:

Let $f$ be an algebraic curve, $f(x,y) \in \mathbb{C}[x,y]$.
$M \in \mathbb{C}^2$ singular point of the curve
$\Leftrightarrow \left\{\begin{matrix}
f(x,y)=0\\ \frac{\partial f}{\partial x}(M)=0\\ \frac{\partial f}{\partial y}(M)=0

\end{matrix}\right.$

Each polynomial $f(x,y) \in K[x,y]$ can be written in the form:

$$f(x,y)=f_m(x,y)+f_{m+1}(x,y)+ \dots + f_n(x,y)$$

where $f_i(x,y)$ is a homogeneous polynomial of degree $i$ and $f_m(x,y) \not\equiv 0, f_n(x,y) \not\equiv 0$.

The order of the singular point $M=(a,b)$ of the curve $f$ is defined as the natural number $m$. (Nerd)
 
  • #4
evinda said:
According to my notes:

Let $f$ be an algebraic curve, $f(x,y) \in \mathbb{C}[x,y]$.
$M \in \mathbb{C}^2$ singular point of the curve
$\Leftrightarrow \left\{\begin{matrix}
f(x,y)=0\\ \frac{\partial f}{\partial x}(M)=0\\ \frac{\partial f}{\partial y}(M)=0

\end{matrix}\right.$

Each polynomial $f(x,y) \in K[x,y]$ can be written in the form:

$$f(x,y)=f_m(x,y)+f_{m+1}(x,y)+ \dots + f_n(x,y)$$

where $f_i(x,y)$ is a homogeneous polynomial of degree $i$ and $f_m(x,y) \not\equiv 0, f_n(x,y) \not\equiv 0$.

The order of the singular point $M=(a,b)$ of the curve $f$ is defined as the natural number $m$. (Nerd)

Aha!
That makes sense. (Smile)

In that case I believe it is correct that the order of $M$ is $2$. (Wasntme)
 
  • #5
I like Serena said:
Aha!
That makes sense. (Smile)

In that case I believe it is correct that the order of $M$ is $2$. (Wasntme)

Nice! Could we also use this formula:

$$f(x)=\sum_{n=0}^{\infty} \frac{f^{(n)}(a)}{n!}(x-a)^n$$

for the taylor expansion? (Thinking)
 
  • #6
evinda said:
Nice! Could we also use this formula:

$$f(x)=\sum_{n=0}^{\infty} \frac{f^{(n)}(a)}{n!}(x-a)^n$$

for the taylor expansion? (Thinking)

That formula only has $x$ in it, and no $y$. (Worried)We can do it, but we'll need the generalized version of that formula for several variables:
[box=]Multi dimensional form of Taylor expansion
$$f(\mathbf x)=\sum_{n=0}^{\infty} \frac 1 {n!}\mathbf D^nf(\mathbf a)(\mathbf x-\mathbf a)^n$$
where $\mathbf x = (x,y)$, $\mathbf a = (a,b)$, and $\mathbf D^nf$ is the generalized derivative for multiple dimensions.[/box] (Dull)In this case it expands to:
\begin{aligned}f(x,y) = f(a,b) &+ \Big(f_x(a,b)(x-a) + f_y(a,b)(y-b)\Big) \\
&+ \frac 1{2!}\Big(f_{xx}\cdot (x-a)^2 + 2f_{xy}\cdot (x-a)(y-b) + f_{yy}\cdot (y-b)^2\Big) \\
&+ ...
\end{aligned}
(Wasntme)
 
  • #7
I like Serena said:
That formula only has $x$ in it, and no $y$. (Worried)We can do it, but we'll need the generalized version of that formula for several variables:
$$f(\mathbf x)=\sum_{n=0}^{\infty} \frac 1 {n!}\mathbf D^nf(\mathbf a)(\mathbf x-\mathbf a)^n$$
where $\mathbf x = (x,y)$, $\mathbf a = (a,b)$, and $\mathbf D^nf$ is the generalized derivative for multiple dimensions. (Dull)In this case it expands to:
\begin{aligned}f(x,y) = f(a,b) &+ \Big(f_x(a,b)(x-a) + f_y(a,b)(y-b)\Big) \\
&+ \frac 1{2!}\Big(f_{xx}\cdot (x-a)^2 + 2f_{xy}\cdot (x-a)(y-b) + f_{yy}\cdot (y-b)^2\Big) \\
&+ ...
\end{aligned}
(Wasntme)

A ok! And which is the formula of $\mathbf D^nf$? (Thinking)
 
Last edited:
  • #8
evinda said:
A ok! And which is the formula of $\mathbf D^nf$? (Thinking)

$Df$ is the vector of particle derivatives:
$$Df = (f_x, f_y)$$

$D^2f$ is the matrix of all possible second particle derivatives:
$$D^2f = \begin{bmatrix}f_{xx} & f_{xy} \\ f_{xy} & f_{yy}\end{bmatrix} = \left(\frac{\partial^2}{\partial x_i \partial x_j}\right)$$

$D^3f$ is a 2x2x2 matrix (aka tensor) with all possible combinations of the partial derivatives:
$$D^3f = \left(\frac{\partial^3}{\partial x_i \partial x_j \partial x_k}\right)$$

And so on. (Wasntme)

So for instance:
$$D^3f(\mathbf a) (\mathbf x - \mathbf a)^3 = \sum_i \sum_j \sum_k \frac{\partial^3f(\mathbf a)}{\partial x_i \partial x_j \partial x_k}(x_i-a_i)(x_j-a_j)(x_k-a_k)$$
(Sweating)
 

FAQ: Calculate the order of the point

What does it mean to "calculate the order of a point"?

The order of a point refers to the number of times a particular point is repeated in a certain mathematical structure. In other words, it is the smallest positive integer n for which n times the point equals the identity element of the structure.

How do you calculate the order of a point in a group?

In a group, the order of a point can be calculated by finding the smallest positive integer n for which n times the point equals the identity element of the group. This can be done by repeatedly applying the group operation to the point until the identity element is obtained.

Why is it important to calculate the order of a point?

Calculating the order of a point is important in understanding the structure and properties of a mathematical group. It can also be used in cryptography to create secure encryption methods.

What are some methods for calculating the order of a point?

There are several methods for calculating the order of a point, including brute force calculation, using known properties of the group, and using specialized algorithms such as the Pollard's rho algorithm.

Can the order of a point be infinite?

No, the order of a point in a finite group is always a positive integer. However, in an infinite group, the order of a point may be infinite if the point has infinite order, meaning it cannot be reached by repeatedly applying the group operation.

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