Can I (with a math major) do a masters in theoretical physics?

[QuantumPhyZ]

Hello! This is a continuation thread from this one, but the question is different from the one I purposed that time, thus I'm creating a new thread. I will enter in details in what credits I do have, also the title is self-explanatory.

I have done credits and this courses (I will also give the themes of this subjects, so we are in the same page on whatever university you took your physics degree. I will also only talk about the physics courses, as the other courses such as introductory courses of analysis, LA, programming and chemistry I done them all):

-Mechanics (Introductory to mechanics. Doesn't goes much in depth than Serway Raymond - "Principles of physics" and Tipler Paul A. "Physics for scientists and engineers; In the end of the course we do talk about relativity of Galileu and special relativity, Lorentz transformations)
-Electromagnetism I (Introductory to electromagnetism. We talked about electrostatics and magneto-statics. The books recommended and used were David Halliday - "Fundamentals of physics" and Tipler Paul A. - "Physics for scientists and engineers")
-Laboratories of Physics I (I can't go much in depth as I don't remember which experiments where done.)
-Astrophysics (If I remember right, it was the first 10 chapters of the book of Carroll, W.B., Ostille, D.A - An Introduction to Modern Astrophysics)
-Thermal physics (I don't remember much from this one as well, but if I remember right the books used where, E. Fermi; Thermodynamics and M. Born; Atomic Physics)
-Laboratories of Physics II (Same thing as the first one I did)
-Geophysics (Easiest course of my degree for sure. The booked used was from Mussett Alan E.; Looking into the earth)
- Waves and Continuous Mediums (I loved this course. We went through oscillations, waves, elasticity and fluid mechanics. The book used was French A. P.; Vibrations and Waves)
- Electronics (Second easiest course, at least for me. The book used was Bélanger P. R.; Introduction to circuits with electronics)
-Analytical Mechanics (We all know this one, I think. We went through the lovable Goldstein; Classical Mechanics. I also had a great fun in this course.)
-Optics and Photonics (Least favorite course from the ones I mentioned. We learned optical geometry, oscillatory optics, coherent optics and topics of modern optics. Book used, Hecht Eugene; Optics)

This is the courses I did, sadly I wasn't able to learn quantum mechanics due to mental health issues. I was wondering that with this paired with a math major would get me into a masters on physics. However, I'm not suicidal enough to go into it without more preparation, as I know I need to learn a little more than I did, so for the next 3 years, I will be reading the following books:

-A Das, T. Ferbel - Introduction to nuclear and particle physics (2003)
-David J. Griffiths, Darrell F. Schroeter - Introduction to Quantum Mechanics - Cambridge University Press (2018)
-Frederick Reif - Fundamentals of Statistical And Thermal Physics-Waveland Pr Inc (1965)
-George B. Rybicki, Alan P. Lightman - Radiative processes in astrophysics-Wiley-VCH (1985)
-John David Jackson - Classical electrodynamics (1999, Wiley)
-Kenneth S. Krane - Introductory Nuclear Physics-Wiley (1987)
-Mark Thomson - Modern Particle Physics-Cambridge University Press (2013)
-Mehran Kardar - Statistical Physics of Particles (2007)
-Michael P. Marder - Condensed Matter Physics-Wiley (2010)
-[Quantum Mechanics] Claude Cohen-Tannoudji Bernard Diu Frank Laloe - Quantum Mechanics, Volume 1/2 (1991, Wiley-Vch)
-Sakurai J.J., Napolitano J.J. - Modern Quantum Mechanics-Pearson Education (2010)
-Schutz, Bernard F - A first course in general relativity-Cambridge University Press (2009)
-(Solid State Physics) Neil W.(Neil W. Ashcroft) Ashcroft, N. David Mermin - Solid state physics-Holt, Rinehart and Winston (1976)
-I'm also thinking of revisiting Goldstein

With this said, is this enough for someone having a math major to go to a masters in physics, then going into a PhD?

 

[Vanadium 50]

The answer was "no" then, and it's "no" now.

Programs will look at the classes you took, not the books that you read. Further, a lot of your classes you say you don't remember - so even if you are accepted into a graduate program, you will have difficulty., They will assume you do remember.

 

[QuantumPhyZ]

The answer was "no" then, and it's "no" now.

Programs will look at the classes you took, not the books that you read. Further, a lot of your classes you say you don't remember - so even if you are accepted into a graduate program, you will have difficulty., They will assume you do remember.

Sure. I was expecting that. I do know what you are trying to say, however new considerations came through.

Can I go into mathematical physics on my PhD for example, since that is mostly math?

Can I focus on quantum computing and do a masters or PhD related to it with a math major (I can take courses on complexity number theory, cryptography, algorithms and information theory as well as a course on quantum information)?

 

[Vanadium 50]

Sure. I was expecting that. I do know what you are trying to say, however new considerations came through.

I don't think anything has changed. I think you are going to keep asking and asking and asking until you get the answer you want to hear.

You are not prepared. You have taken no quantum mechanics, and by your own admission have forgotten much of what you did take. Gaining admission will be difficult, perhaps impossible. Getting through the program will be harder still. Excelling - a necessary condition for post-PhD employment (I know you want to stay in school for another decade and get another doctorate after that, but someday you will need to get a job) will be harder still.

 

[QuantumPhyZ]

I don't think anything has changed. I think you are going to keep asking and asking and asking until you get the answer you want to hear.

You are not prepared. You have taken no quantum mechanics, and by your own admission have forgotten much of what you did take. Gaining admission will be difficult, perhaps impossible. Getting through the program will be harder still. Excelling - a necessary condition for post-PhD employment (I know you want to stay in school for another decade and get another doctorate after that, but someday you will need to get a job) will be harder still.

I just wanted to add, that I contacted the school where I want to do my masters on physics, and yes you were right about doing a math degree and not be accepted. However I do have good news, they said with a good enough GRE Physics score I would enter along my major in math AND with the credits I have made the last 4 years. However they are still undecided which would be the score.

With this said, I come with some questions about the GRE Physics exam, what's the best way to prepare for it?

How much will I be behind the courses lectured at a Masters in Physics? (Sure I do understand that without the supervision of a professor, it will be hard for me to know precisely how much I do know. But! I have the lectures notes and video lectures access to my disposable. Not only that, I can contact my past university professors in case of doubts and questions about the material I have access to.)

Should I revise everything normally or is it only necessary to be prepared for the GRE Physics exam?

How much do I need to know in each subject to get good grades at my masters?

PS: Sorry for being stubborn, I will never give up in following a degree in physics even if I had my opportunity and lost it due to partying and mental health issues.

 

[Vanadium 50]

It's a lot easier to say you are going fo ace the PGRE than to actually do it. That is especially true if, as you say, you have forgotten large chunks of your coursework.

 

[QuantumPhyZ]

It's a lot easier to say you are going fo ace the PGRE than to actually do it. That is especially true if, as you say, you have forgotten large chunks of your coursework.

Maybe I gave the idea I wanted to ace my PGRE, but that's not the case. I will try the best to my capabilities, furthermost I want to take the PGRE in 3 years, before I finish my math major. It's true that I don't remember some classes, but like I said I can revise and see the coursework lectures and notes online (this is partly due to a platform where the students of the university I want to go back in created. Hopefully it expands to the US and give MIT course ware a run for its money, which it will if it expands.). With this said, I could be seeing this optimistically, as I can be seen as a optimist at some times. However I do have available enough resources to succeed. Thank you for the responses though!

 

[marcusl]

I just wanted to add, that I contacted the school where I want to do my masters on physics, and yes you were right about doing a math degree and not be accepted. However I do have good news, they said with a good enough GRE Physics score I would enter along my major in math AND with the credits I have made the last 4 years. However they are still undecided which would be the score.

With this said, I come with some questions about the GRE Physics exam, what's the best way to prepare for it?

How much will I be behind the courses lectured at a Masters in Physics?

You have been hearing realistic advice from Vanadium50. I thought you might benefit from a second opinion, although it's not going to be much different from what you've heard already. I'll address your questions quoted above in reverse order.
1) You are very far behind the preparation needed for a Masters in physics. At the university I attended, you have completed the freshman physics courses and have taken a smattering of sophomore classes. (Maybe Optics would count as a junior course.) Furthermore, you said you did poorly and don't remember much of what little you did. As Vanadium50 pointed out, even if you got admitted, it is likely you would not make it through the master program with this preparation.

2) There is a reason that students attend a university to learn a subject. The best preparation for the PGRE is to complete a Bachelor program in physics. The truth is that self-study is much harder than it sounds. This is doubly true since you want to do your physics catch-up while a full-time student in another program.

Regarding your self-study plans, many of the books you listed are graduate level texts. This is a mistake, because you have left out the intro and intermediate ones. No one runs without first having mastered crawling and then walking. I think there's little chance of getting through Jackson without having successfully completed a junior level EM course, to pick just one example. If you are committed to a self-study course of action, your plan needs to be realistic. You also must be prepared to adjust. If you haven't mastered one-third of the material after the first year, then you'll know that your three-year plan is not going to work. If it goes poorly, then you'll know that your goal of a physics master and PhD might be unobtainable.

3) You mentioned earlier that you are not trying to "ace" the PGRE, but I think that's exactly what you'll need to do to get admitted. You'll need to convince a skeptical admissions committee that you are an ace at physics, given that you not only lack the usual supporting documentation (that is, university physics courses with good grades), but had poor grades and dropped out of school.

In summary, you need to get realistic. Put a reasonable and workable plan together, realize that the odds are against you, and be honest about your progress and prospects as you proceed. It would help to be prepared for a plan B career in AI or something else.

 

[QuantumPhyZ]

You have been hearing realistic advice from Vanadium50. I thought you might benefit from a second opinion, although it's not going to be much different from what you've heard already. I'll address your questions quoted above in reverse order.
1) You are very far behind the preparation needed for a Masters in physics. At the university I attended, you have completed the freshman physics courses and have taken a smattering of sophomore classes. (Maybe Optics would count as a junior course.) Furthermore, you said you did poorly and don't remember much of what little you did. As Vanadium50 pointed out, even if you got admitted, it is likely you would not make it through the master program with this preparation.

2) There is a reason that students attend a university to learn a subject. The best preparation for the PGRE is to complete a Bachelor program in physics. The truth is that self-study is much harder than it sounds. This is doubly true since you want to do your physics catch-up while a full-time student in another program.

Regarding your self-study plans, many of the books you listed are graduate level texts. This is a mistake, because you have left out the intro and intermediate ones. No one runs without first having mastered crawling and then walking. I think there's little chance of getting through Jackson without having successfully completed a junior level EM course, to pick just one example. If you are committed to a self-study course of action, your plan needs to be realistic. You also must be prepared to adjust. If you haven't mastered one-third of the material after the first year, then you'll know that your three-year plan is not going to work. If it goes poorly, then you'll know that your goal of a physics master and PhD might be unobtainable.

3) You mentioned earlier that you are not trying to "ace" the PGRE, but I think that's exactly what you'll need to do to get admitted. You'll need to convince a skeptical admissions committee that you are an ace at physics, given that you not only lack the usual supporting documentation (that is, university physics courses with good grades), but had poor grades and dropped out of school.

In summary, you need to get realistic. Put a reasonable and workable plan together, realize that the odds are against you, and be honest about your progress and prospects as you proceed. It would help to be prepared for a plan B career in AI or something else.

First of all, thank for the response!

I have been reading and accepting Vanadium50 advice. Having a more experienced person to talk to you and advise you is always good, same goes this opinion of yours, that's why I'm here in the first place.

1) That's something I do acknowledge. I do know I will need to put 2x the effort or more compared to what I did in the past. That's why I'm setting up a rigorous (and healthy) schedule to go through my life from now on to be capable to achieve my goals.

2) I do agree with you, that's why I went into physics in the first place. However without any other option other than taking the PGRE and self-study now with the help of my past professors, I also came up with a plan B. (Which I will better explain in the last paragraph of this post).

I'm surprised by you saying that most of the books I said where graduate level books. Because I took them from the official program of the university I was on / want to go to. Obviously we don't go through the full book, such as Jackson, but we do go through some problems and chapters of it, and that's what I intend to do. Follow the program. I also have access to exams of each course, so if I'm seriously going to take this route I can always imitate the exams, AND in case of any doubt or question, send them to my past professors. I will prepare a schedule but I intend for it to be adjustable.

3) It's more a nothing to lose situation. The only thing I have to realistically lose is 150$. That's it, which is pretty affordable for someone who wants to go into a physics masters. So if I have to ace my PGRE I will try but it won't be the end of my plans.

My plan B is to get into software engineering through my math major (and apply it in common fields) as I already have some experience programming and intend to improve on that aspect. My final goal is to reach quantum computing. I wanted to take the condensed matter physics route, but I do know with a math masters (with enough courses on CS and one in quantum information) this is also plausible. So it isn't exactly the end of the world if I do not get into a masters in physics, it's just the preferable route to achieve my goals. It would be also a testimony of my capabilities to myself if I'm able to pull this off. Even if I still had to prove a lot in the future after getting into the theoretical physics masters.

 

[Frabjous]

You should reflect on the grades for the courses that you took. If they are not all A’s, you probably do not have the ability to meet your ambitous goals. The physics you need to learn is harder than the physics you have already learned.

The list of books for future study is nonsense. It calls into doubt that you have seriously thought this through. If you cannot come up with a realistic study plan, you will not succeed. For what you want to do, you will need to “work”(solve problems and complete derivations) not “read” your way through textbooks. Part of what an undergraduate physics degree teaches is problem solving , which is learned by doing.

Not only that, I can contact my past university professors in case of doubts and questions about the material I have access to.

Unless they have already signed off on this, I think you are overestimating their availability.

 

[QuantumPhyZ]

You should reflect on the grades for the courses that you took. If they are not all A’s, you probably do not have the ability to meet your ambitous goals. The physics you need to learn is harder than the physics you have already learned.

The list of books for future study is nonsense. It calls into doubt that you have seriously thought this through. If you cannot come up with a realistic study plan, you will not succeed. For what you want to do, you will need to “work”(solve problems and complete derivations) not “read” your way through textbooks. Part of what an undergraduate physics degree teaches is problem solving , which is learned by doing.


Unless they have already signed off on this, I think you are overestimating their availability.

Even if I don’t have the ability, I do have time and I could always try. I didn’t have A’s due to mental health issues and the type of life I lived. Obviously I know my limits. I’m not falling to the Dunning-Krueger effect on this one. If I were I wouldn’t even put the coursework I did nor the books.

I believe we have a misunderstanding on this one. I don’t intend to only read the text books because that’s clearly not the right way to study physics. I want to solve their problems and use them as a guide to solve the coursework problems as well (since it is available to me).

I’m not intending to flood their emails. I have plenty of other resources to do this, including the lectures from this university. This seems to have been a misunderstanding as well. However, if nothing works, including research, I can always send an email which obviously will be something that will rarely be done.

 

[Frabjous]

I do have time and I could always try.

Do you? How do you know that this extracuricular education attempt will not interfere with your university education attempt?

Do you even know what normal quantum computing education PATHS look like?

 

[QuantumPhyZ]

Do you? How do you know that this extracuricular education attempt will not interfere with your university education attempt?

Do you even know what normal quantum computing education PATHS look like?

I can always hop to the plan B if it interferes with my grades in the math major. If I’m seeing I’m exceeding my limits, that would be the healthiest thing to do.

No. Actually I do not and I was considering making a question about that. So if you could help me to figure that one out, that would be helpful and appreciated as well!

 

[Frabjous]

I can always hop to the plan B if it interferes with my grades in the math major. If I’m seeing I’m exceeding my limits, that would be the healthiest thing to do.

No. Actually I do not and I was considering making a question about that. So if you could help me to figure that one out, that would be helpful and appreciated as well!

For your plan to succeed, you will need a high PGRE and be a TOP math student.

You need to examine the curricula of many programs. Not all programs will be inside physics departments. You should also check the education literature for curricula discussions. You need to look through the quantum computing literature to figure out what the issues and needs are. This is something that needs to be done systematically.

 

[QuantumPhyZ]

For your plan to succeed, you will need a high PGRE and be a TOP math student.

You need to examine the curricula of many programs. Not all programs will be inside physics departments. You should also check the education literature for curricula discussions. You need to look through the quantum computing literature to figure out what the issues and needs are. This is something that needs to be done systematically.

I know that. However as Vanadium50 said, having an high PGRE would not be enough and will leave me awful prepared to the physics masters, thus the books mentioned.

In the country where I live (Portugal), the only programs that leads through quantum information are physics programs, however if I were to do a masters in math on that university, I will be able to take a course in quantum information as well many CS courses that would be necessary to go through the problems of quantum computing. That is my plan B (the courses in cs would also strengthen my programming skills, even if I don't take a job in quantum computing), so you could say that really my plan C is going into software engineering.

What do you exactly mean by: "This is something that needs to be done systematically." ?

 

[Frabjous]

I mean that you need to do a lot of research.

You have three years of university work ahead of you, yet it will not be sufficient to get you where you want to go. QC is a multi-disciplinary effort, you need to explore the non-physics degree parts of that effort. At this point, you have no idea if you will like pure QM or condensed matter physics.

Why aren’t you looking to transfer into a physics program?

 

[QuantumPhyZ]

I mean that you need to do a lot of research.

You have three years of university work ahead of you, yet it will not be sufficient to get you where you want to go. QC is a multi-disciplinary effort, you need to explore the non-physics degree parts of that effort. At this point, you have no idea if you will like pure QM or condensed matter physics.

Why aren’t you looking to transfer into a physics program?

Interesting, I always thought only physicists would be prepared well enough for it, principally the condensed matter physics ones.

The reasons are explained on the other thread. However since that's a lot to read, I will give a brief summary. I was on the physics program in University of Porto, but due to two psychotic breakdowns and the lifestyle I lived, I lost my scholarship on there and had to leave in my last year (I think that's junior year for the US and UK guys). On the year I had my second psychotic breakdown, I was doing well and studying (going to the lectures, doing exercises, etc.) however with my mentally illness this things come randomly and I had to go to the hospital and leave that last semester. However, I could progress my studies in my local university, but they don't have a physics program. The two best degrees I was considering to solve this problem and lead me to my end goal, was Software Engineering and a Math bachelors. So after contacting the director of the program of the masters on theoretical physics, it come out that I would have an opportunity to enroll on it by doing the PGRE and finishing the math major. In the last year, I found a love to quantum mechanics and principally condensed matter physics (partly because of the professors on those courses). I will also re-earn my scholarship the first time I enroll in any masters program (the scholarship comes with residency). So I had two choices, work (which would be better with a job at the software engineering side), save up, and start again in a new physics program, or going into the math major and explore the options that comes alongside it, such as mathematical physics.