Can Time-Invariant Force Laws Accurately Predict Orbits?

In summary, the assumption of no time dependence in Newton's universal law of gravity and Coulomb's law leads to a non-zero force everywhere in the universe at any time after a charged particle or gravitating mass appears. This was resolved by Maxwell's laws and later by general relativity, which provide a better understanding of time dependence in electricity, magnetism, and gravitation. While the equations for time-invariant situations may appear similar, they are not exactly the same and can result in different predictions for the orbits of objects.
  • #1
Amin2014
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In other words, where does this assumption become mathematically explicit? Is it because there is no parameter representing time in Newton's universal law of gravity?

If so, what about other force laws like Coulomb's law for charges? I don't see any time embedded in that.
 
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  • #2
Amin2014 said:
Is it because there is no parameter representing time in Newton's universal law of gravity?
Yes, the law of gravity itself says nothing about a delay. And that's how it must be interpreted to get elliptical orbits.
 
  • #3
Amin2014 said:
In other words, where does this assumption become mathematically explicit? Is it because there is no parameter representing time in Newton's universal law of gravity

If so, what about other force laws like Coulomb's law for charges? I don't see any time embedded in that.

Yes, the assumption is in the way that ##r## appears in Newton's law with no time dependence, and yes, the same is true of Coulomb's law. Imagine that a charged particle or a gravitating mass were to suddenly appear anywhere in the universe at time ##T## - if we take those two laws at face value, there would be a non-zero force everywhere in the universe at any time after ##T##. That doesn't make a lot of sense, so instead of taking them at face value we accept that they don't apply in time-varying situations.

Maxwell's laws, discovered in 1861, supplied the necessary understanding of time dependence for electricity and magnetism. General relativity, a half-century later, did the same for gravitation.
 
  • #4
Nugatory said:
Yes, the assumption is in the way that ##r## appears in Newton's law with no time dependence, and yes, the same is true of Coulomb's law. Imagine that a charged particle or a gravitating mass were to suddenly appear anywhere in the universe at time ##T## - if we take those two laws at face value, there would be a non-zero force everywhere in the universe at any time after ##T##. That doesn't make a lot of sense, so instead of taking them at face value we accept that they don't apply in time-varying situations.

Maxwell's laws, discovered in 1861, supplied the necessary understanding of time dependence for electricity and magnetism. General relativity, a half-century later, did the same for gravitation.
THANK YOU! So the more general equations reduce EXACTLY to the two mentioned equations for time-invariant situations?
 
  • #5
Amin2014 said:
So the more general equations reduce EXACTLY to the two mentioned equations for time-invariant situations?

They do not. For example, the Schwarzschild solution to the Einstein field equations of general relativity describes the static time-independent gravitational field of a spherical mass, just as does Newton's ##F=Gm_1m_2/r^2## - but the solution is slightly different and as a result the orbits predicted by Newton's theory do not quite match those predicted by GR and actually observed (google for "Mercury orbit precession").
 

FAQ: Can Time-Invariant Force Laws Accurately Predict Orbits?

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