Can we have a dedicated thread for FAQ requests?

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In summary, if you push on one end of a stick, the effect of the push cannot reach the other side of the stick faster than c.
  • #1
tltmts
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It takes light roughly 1.3 seconds to travel from the Earth to the moon. I have read that even if you push on one end of a stick, the effect of the push cannot reach the other side of the stick faster than c.

So suppose I held a stick in my right hand and one end of this stick is only 1cm away from the surface of the moon. My right arm is bent at a right angle. I now push my end of the stick toward the moon.

Intuitively, it seems that as soon as my arm pushed forward 1cm it would meet instant resistance that stopped it from moving more than 1cm. But if this really happened, then if I tapped Morse code on the surface of the moon I could send a signal faster than c.

So I'm guessing I would be able to continue to push my end of the stick forward more than 1cm. Indeed, I suppose I could push until I locked out my bent right arm at the elbow. I would not be able to feel the effect until enough time has passed for light to travel to the moon and back---roughly 2.6 seconds.

So suppose at time T=0 seconds I begin to push my end of the stick toward the moon. At T=1.0 seconds I have locked out my right arm---I have pushed my end of the stick forward about, say, 60cm. At T=1.3 seconds the other end of the stick hits the moon. At T=2.6 seconds I feel the effect of the other end of the stick hitting the surface of the moon.

But what will this effect be? My arm cannot remain locked out unless the stick has shortened by 59cm. But the stick has not in fact shortened, right?

So does my right hand experience a rebound at 2.6 seconds that forces it 59cm back from the moon? (I.e. a rebound with a force equivalent to the force it took me to accelerate the stick's mass 60cm toward the moon in 1 second?)
 
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  • #2
tltmts said:
It takes light roughly 1.3 seconds to travel from the Earth to the moon. I have read that even if you push on one end of a stick, the effect of the push cannot reach the other side of the stick faster than c.

So suppose I held a stick in my right hand and one end of this stick is only 1cm away from the surface of the moon. My right arm is bent at a right angle. I now push my end of the stick toward the moon.

Intuitively, it seems that as soon as my arm pushed forward 1cm it would meet instant resistance that stopped it from moving more than 1cm. But if this really happened, then if I tapped Morse code on the surface of the moon I could send a signal faster than c.

So I'm guessing I would be able to continue to push my end of the stick forward more than 1cm. Indeed, I suppose I could push until I locked out my bent right arm at the elbow. I would not be able to feel the effect until enough time has passed for light to travel to the moon and back---roughly 2.6 seconds.

So suppose at time T=0 seconds I begin to push my end of the stick toward the moon. At T=1.0 seconds I have locked out my right arm---I have pushed my end of the stick forward about, say, 60cm. At T=1.3 seconds the other end of the stick hits the moon. At T=2.6 seconds I feel the effect of the other end of the stick hitting the surface of the moon.

But what will this effect be? My arm cannot remain locked out unless the stick has shortened by 59cm. But the stick has not in fact shortened, right?

So does my right hand experience a rebound at 2.6 seconds that forces it 59cm back from the moon? (I.e. a rebound with a force equivalent to the force it took me to accelerate the stick's mass 60cm toward the moon in 1 second?)

The motion of the stick or the propagation of the taps happens at the speed of sound in the stick, not at c.
 
  • #3
Maybe we should make this a FAQ. It comes up at least once or twice a month.
 
  • #4
berkeman said:
The motion of the stick or the propagation of the taps happens at the speed of sound in the stick, not at c.

Ahh...interesting.

Thanks.
 
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  • #5
DaleSpam said:
Maybe we should make this a FAQ. It comes up at least once or twice a month.

I did read the FAQ for this forum before posting. I also did a search for "stick" in the search box before posting and didn't see anything relevant.

Though I should have tried Google before posting...as "speed of light stick" turned up this hit:

https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=369105
 
  • #6
No worries, there are a lot of variations on the theme that don't affect the idea but make it hard to search for. It is a question that deserves a FAQ I think.
 
  • #7
DaleSpam said:
Maybe we should make this a FAQ. It comes up at least once or twice a month.

I swear its more like 1-2 times a week!
 
  • #8
DaleSpam said:
Maybe we should make this a FAQ. It comes up at least once or twice a month.

It falls under "rigid body doesn't square well with finite maximal speed of propagation" category. Perhaps the "Pole and the barn" problem should go into it too?
 
  • #9
Why is the propogation of taps at the speed of sound?
 
  • #10
DaleSpam said:
Maybe we should make this a FAQ. It comes up at least once or twice a month.

Drakkith said:
I swear its more like 1-2 times a week!

Just a thought, is it worth having a specific thread for people to recommend FAQ's? For example, I've seen a number of things that could be potential candidates.

I know we all should make the recommendation in the thread where we see the opportunity for the FAQ, but having one thread dedicated to FAQ requests might help eliminate duplicate requests and offer a way to manage all of the potential FAQ's needed.

It would also give others the opportunity to offer a potential FAQ answer in the request. Might help save some Admin time.

Anyway, as I said, it was just a thought. :smile:
 
  • #11
jewbinson said:
Why is the propogation of taps at the speed of sound?

Because that's what sound is- waves of vibrations. The speed of sound in a medium is the speed at which waves are transmitted through the medium.
 
  • #12
rede96 said:
Just a thought, is it worth having a specific thread for people to recommend FAQ's? For example, I've seen a number of things that could be potential candidates.

I know we all should make the recommendation in the thread where we see the opportunity for the FAQ, but having one thread dedicated to FAQ requests might help eliminate duplicate requests and offer a way to manage all of the potential FAQ's needed.

It would also give others the opportunity to offer a potential FAQ answer in the request. Might help save some Admin time.

Anyway, as I said, it was just a thought. :smile:
It is a good thought. I did exactly that, but got no traction:
https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=513411
 

FAQ: Can we have a dedicated thread for FAQ requests?

What is the purpose of pushing a stick into the moon?

The purpose of pushing a stick into the moon is to study the composition and structure of the moon's surface. By analyzing the materials that make up the moon, scientists can gain a better understanding of its formation and history.

How would pushing a stick into the moon affect its orbit?

Pushing a stick into the moon would not significantly affect its orbit. The moon is much larger and has a much greater mass than a stick, so the stick's impact would be negligible. Additionally, the moon's orbit is primarily influenced by the gravitational pull of the Earth and other celestial bodies.

What kind of stick would be best for pushing into the moon?

The type of stick used for pushing into the moon would depend on the purpose of the experiment. For surface analysis, a sturdy and durable stick made of metal or composite materials would be ideal. For deeper penetration, a pointed stick made of a strong material such as titanium may be more effective.

How deep would the stick need to be pushed into the moon's surface?

The depth to which the stick would need to be pushed into the moon's surface would also depend on the goals of the experiment. For surface analysis, a few inches may be sufficient, while for deeper exploration, the stick may need to be pushed several feet into the moon's surface.

What kind of data could be collected from pushing a stick into the moon?

The data collected from pushing a stick into the moon could include samples of the moon's surface materials, measurements of depth and density, and observations of any changes or reactions that occur when the stick is pushed into the surface. This data can then be analyzed to gain insights into the moon's composition and structure.

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