Cardinality of Set: Proving lXl<lYl Implies lXl\inlYl

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The discussion focuses on proving that if the cardinality of set X is less than that of set Y (|X| < |Y|), then |X| must belong to |Y| (|X| ∈ |Y|). The user attempts to demonstrate this by establishing a one-to-one function from X to Y, indicating that |X| is not equal to |Y|, and explores the implications of assuming the opposite. They reference Cantor-Bernstein's theorem to argue that assuming |X| > |Y| leads to a contradiction, reinforcing their claim. The conversation emphasizes understanding the order relation on ordinals and its connection to cardinal numbers. Overall, the proof is affirmed as correct, indicating a solid grasp of the concepts involved.
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Homework Statement



Hi!
I want to show that lXl<lYl implies lXl\inlYl where lXl and lYl are some cardinal numbers of two sets X and Y and the ordering < is defined on cardinal numbers .


Homework Equations





The Attempt at a Solution


I tried to solve it by myself as follows:
lXl < lYl \rightarrow lXl\leqlYl and not lXl=lYl( X is not equipotent to Y)
\rightarrow there is a function f on X into Y s.t. f is a 1-1 function, and
not lXl=lYl( cardinal numbers lXl and lYl are not same)
\rightarrow there is a function f on X into Y s.t. f is a 1-1 function, and
lXl\inlYl or lYl\inlXl since lXl and
lYl are initial ordinals.

But I can't determine why lXl must belong to lYl.

Could you give me a hint??
 
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|X| and |Y| are ordinals, and |X|<|Y| as ordinals (prove this). So, what do you know about the order relation on the ordinals?
 
micromass said:
|X| and |Y| are ordinals, and |X|<|Y| as ordinals (prove this). So, what do you know about the order relation on the ordinals?

I tried to prove it.
I found that if i assume lXl>lYl as ordinals, then it leads to lYl is less than or equal to lXl as cardinals. Then cantor- bernstein's theorem makes a conclusion s.t. lXl=lYl(X is equipotent to Y) . But this is contradiction to the hypothesis lXl<lYl as cardinals. And if lXl=lYl as ordinals, then it is obviously contradiction to the hypothesis. So, lXl<lYl.
Is my proof right??
 
Last edited:
Looks good!
 
micromass said:
Looks good!

I really appretiate for your help.
Thanks!
 
Question: A clock's minute hand has length 4 and its hour hand has length 3. What is the distance between the tips at the moment when it is increasing most rapidly?(Putnam Exam Question) Answer: Making assumption that both the hands moves at constant angular velocities, the answer is ## \sqrt{7} .## But don't you think this assumption is somewhat doubtful and wrong?

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