Career Direction after rough end to Physics degree

[fosamilforesail]

I recently graduated last year with a BS in Physics.
To say that it was rough would be an understatement.

I started off my degree very well, getting nearly all A's and A-'s. My performance would decline for various reasons, though mostly due to mental health which spiraled and became a bad feedback loop. I also was taking harder classes earlier to try to get into grad school which was my main goal, and was working on an engineering project which took up a great deal of time.

Then Covid happened, and I fell behind further in an already tough semester (I had just visited the schools mental health department right as it was going down as I was staying on campus due to being an RA over the Spring Break).

My senior year went even worse, and I ended up withdrawing and failing (changed to Not Completed due to university policies) my lab classes that year. The rest of my classes I got Cs and Bs in with 1 or 2 A's.

I managed to graduate because I had so many physics credits due to taking harder classes early and filling my degree with Physics and Math electives.
I would only get into one PhD program at a low ranked local school, and I was so burnt out that I just wanted time away from Physics.

Now I am working in Software Engineering, though I am not 100% happy there either. I would like to get back into Physics and/or Engineering, though I have had a hard time applying for jobs in any of these fields.

I am looking into applying to a Masters or Professional Certificate program at a local university to get myself back in the ring with more experience and maturity, and possibly in an engineering field, though I am worried about my chances of getting in due to my last year's performance.

Should I go for it or stay with Software Engineering and its higher salaries with fewer credentialling?

 

[jedishrfu]

This is a perrenial question that dogs many people throughout their careers.

Basically, should I take the road less traveled:

The Road Not Taken

by Robert Frost

Two roads diverged in a yellow wood,
And sorry I could not travel both
And be one traveler, long I stood
And looked down one as far as I could
To where it bent in the undergrowth;

Then took the other, as just as fair,
And having perhaps the better claim,
Because it was grassy and wanted wear;
Though as for that the passing there
Had worn them really about the same,

And both that morning equally lay
In leaves no step had trodden black.
Oh, I kept the first for another day!
Yet knowing how way leads on to way,
I doubted if I should ever come back.

I shall be telling this with a sigh
Somewhere ages and ages hence:
Two roads diverged in a wood, and I—
I took the one less traveled by,
And that has made all the difference.

What are your options:

1) stay as a software engineer and get good at what interests you

2) go on to get an MS in software engineering: builds on what you've done and exposes you to new stuff in software engineering

3) try to merge your two interests of physics and software engineering: get involved in physics simulations using Julia, Matlab, Fortran, or Python Basically go and get a Physics MS and merge with your CompSci knowledge

4) switch horses go back to school and try to get a PhD degree in Physics: the hardest route considering your background. Courses get tougher and tougher, your math skills have eroded some since you left school and you'll need to get back on track there. Same for your physics and you'll need to do the same in CM, QM and EM courses.

As you may have guessed I went through a similar bind, got burnt out going to school fulltime, jumping ahead to tougher math classes and working 20/30 hrs per week which combined gave me little time to keep up with course work and my grades started to slip as things got tougher. I graduated, got a job in programming and then yearned to get back.

Five years later I decided to jump back into grad school while still working fulltime (ala one course at a time) and quickly got overwhelmed by the math and the subject matter.

Finally I decided the best course was #3 where I transferred my physics grad courses into a Comp Sci MS program stating I wanted to do simulation work and within a year had an MS in Comp Sci. Sadly though it took 25 years later before I got to do simulation related work when I joined a university-based research lab.

Prof Susskind found a niche for his teaching in the Theoretical Minimum courses geared toward working professionals who regretted not taking the physics boat way back when but still yearn to understand physics more deeply.

 

[Vanadium 50]

Some additions to Jedi's comments:

Did you actually get into this "low-ranked local school?" What was your GRE? Or are you merely assuming you will get in? In grad school,a C is considered filing. Grad school is harder than undergrad. This is a problem.

It is quite likely that a physics PhD will lead to a career in...<drumroll please>...software engineering. Are you OK with that?

 

[malawi_glenn]

What about teaching?

 

[fosamilforesail]

To additions to Jedi's comments:

Did you actually get into this "low-ranked local school?" What was your GRE? Or are you merely assuming you will get in? In grad school,a C is considered filing. Grad school is harder than undergrad. This is a problem.

It is quite likely that a physics PhD will lead to a career in...<drumroll please>...software engineering. Are you OK with that?

I did not take the GRE because it was both not required and not being administered the year that I applied.
I did get into that school.

My C's were in math electives during a highly depressive period of my life. That's just what it is now, I realize that hurts my chances at applying to further education. That's why I'm asking for advice here.

Edit:

I am also considering doing a Masters/Professional Certificate program in an Engineering field, not just Physics.

 

[Vanadium 50]

My C's were in math electives during a highly depressive period of my life.

The question the committee will be asking is not "do we give the poor fellow a shot" but rather "do we take Sue or do we take Mary?"

If you didn't get C's in physics, it matters less, and if you got C's in some less relevant parts of math, that will hurt less - a C in topology will hurt less than a C in analysis.

As far as engineering goes, a lot of states will not license engineers without a BS. That may or may not matter. But there's also the related issue: MS degrees assume a BS-level of preparation. While they may list a physics degree as one of the minimum degrees they will take, that is not the same as being competitive.

 

[berkeman]

My performance would decline for various reasons, though mostly due to mental health which spiraled and became a bad feedback loop.

My C's were in math electives during a highly depressive period of my life.

You are getting good advice in this thread, but I do need to also ask the medical questions. Have you been able to address the depression and other mental health issues now? Working closely with your family doctor can usually help you to get past the depression issues that were causing those problems for you in school. If you have not addressed the depression and other mental health issues, our other advice will likely not help at all. Please be well.

 

[fosamilforesail]

You are getting good advice in this thread, but I do need to also ask the medical questions. Have you been able to address the depression and other mental health issues now? Working closely with your family doctor can usually help you to get past the depression issues that were causing those problems for you in school. If you have not addressed the depression and other issues, our other advice will likely not help at all. Please be well.

I have been, thankfully.

 

[hutchphd]

There is an interseting alternate interpretation of Robert Frost's wonderful poem that may be relevant here. Being an old guy myself, I note that the narrator of the poem is in fact reminiscing about his life mostly lived.

" Frost would say that the speaker was based on his friend Edward Thomas. In Frost's words, Thomas was "a person who, whichever road he went, would be sorry he didn't go the other. He was hard on himself that way."[2]"

I echo @berkeman in his advice. Depression runs through my genes (and my elder brother is a shrink probably because of that) and there are really good therapies available but it sometimes takes time to find the correct drugs/interventions. And they sometimes change...

Good Luck!

 

[fosamilforesail]

The question the committee will be asking is not "do we give the poor fellow a shot" but rather "do we take Sue or do we take Mary?"

I realize that, and I would be looking to boost my resume in the meantime before I apply.

If you didn't get C's in physics, it matters less, and if you got C's in some less relevant parts of math, that will hurt less - a C in topology will hurt less than a C in analysis.

That makes me feel better at least.

As far as engineering goes, a lot of states will not license engineers without a BS. That may or may not matter. But there's also the related issue: MS degrees assume a BS-level of preparation. While they may list a physics degree as one of the minimum degrees they will take, that is not the same as being competitive.

that's true, and I'd check different programs for their expectations and avenues that require licensing and how.

 

[Vanadium 50]

check different programs for their expectations

It's a good plan, but they may not be willing to tell you more than the minimum for consideration. They might not want to say "We require a 3.5 GPA", take someone with a 3.49, and then get sued.

One thing that you can probably conclude is that if you are near the edge in multiple categories you are less likely to be admitted.

 

[fosamilforesail]

It's a good plan, but they may not be willing to tell you more than the minimum for consideration. They might not want to say "We require a 3.5 GPA", take someone with a 3.49, and then get sued.

One thing that you can probably conclude is that if you are near the edge in multiple categories you are less likely to be admitted.

True, that's good to know. My GPA at the end was ~3.6 so I'm not hugely worried about that, more so just prerequisites for certain programs.

 

[Choppy]

Should I go for it or stay with Software Engineering and its higher salaries with fewer credentialling?

Something else to consider is whether you're just not happy with your current job or the field in general. The former may be relatively easy to solve by finding a new position.

 

[jedishrfu]

Also for future reference, there's a math book on graduate level math that could be used to get you back in the swing of things:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/1009009192/?tag=pfamazon01-20

It looks reasonably good and may be helpful in finding where you are weak. Others here may have better references so I defer to them.

 

[CrysPhys]

that's true, and I'd check different programs for their expectations and avenues that require licensing and how.

Only specific engineering jobs require a license. There are many, many engineering jobs available that do not require a license.

 

[Hornbein]

After 15 years of Silicon Valley software engineering I couldn't stand it any more so I went to graduate school in mathematics. After four years of that I was certain I didn't have what it took so I bailed out with two masters degrees. I don't regret it. It was good entertainment.

I went back to the programming I was doing before. I never had a family or any career ambitions and lived frugally. My only goal was to save enough money so I could get out. Some more years in Oregon programming and then I REALLY couldn't stand it any more. I couldn't afford the USA so I moved overseas to a cheap but beautiful place in Asia, learned the language, and retired there. Best move I ever made. Your mileage may vary.

 

[fosamilforesail]

Only specific engineering jobs require a license. There are many, many engineering jobs available that do not require a license.

yeah I know I'm not particularly interested in Civil or Nuclear Engineering that require licensures due to state projects. I'm mostly talking about private sector Electrical/Chemical/Optical Engineering type stuff that may favor exposure over a specific degree and status

 

[CrysPhys]

yeah I know I'm not particularly interested in Civil or Nuclear Engineering that require licensures due to state projects. I'm mostly talking about private sector Electrical/Chemical/Optical Engineering type stuff that may favor exposure over a specific degree and status

It's not a simple issue of public vs private sector, or specific engineering field. It's an issue of the specific job. Some jobs in the private sector and in other fields such as mechanical engineering, electrical engineering, and materials science and engineering also require a licensed engineer. But there are plenty of engineering jobs that don't.