Charging a Capacitor: Puzzling Questions Answered

[aerograce]

I am quite puzzled about charging a capacitor.

Given a resistor, in series with a capacitor and a battery, when the switch is closed

1. Why there is a current immediately

The capacitor is separated by insulator, hence this is not a closed circuit. The appearance of current seems to be a bit confusing. I thought through this, and conclude that this current is caused by the electronics flow which is for sure due to potential difference. However, when I further think of potential difference, I cannot form a logic explanation to this. The two plates have no potential difference since at the very start it is not charged. How can the electrons flow from a plate to another? I know something has to do with the battery. Could you help me explain more about this?

If there is a circuit with battery, switch, resistor, and the wire split at one place, will something happen like what happens in RC circuit

Wire has its cross area also, and when they are separated apart, can I imagine it as a capacitor? If so, will it also be the case of charging a capacitor?

Thank you for answering all my doubts!

 

[Simon Bridge]

The two plates have no potential difference since at the very start it is not charged.

This is not correct - if you put a voltmeter across the capacitor, you will see a potential difference due to the battery.

If you put an ammeter in the circuit you will be able to measure the current that flows.

How can the electrons flow from a plate to another? I know something has to do with the battery. Could you help me explain more about this?

The electrons flow through the wires, through the battery. Think of a battery as a pump for electrons - it forces electrons to flow from a low potential to a high potential by using an internal supply of energy - usually chemical.

If there is a circuit with battery, switch, resistor, and the wire split at one place, will something happen like what happens in RC circuit[/quote]Yes - the ends of the wire become charged. The maths is a bit more complicated than the plate-capacitor though.

Wire has its cross area also, and when they are separated apart, can I imagine it as a capacitor? If so, will it also be the case of charging a capacitor?

Yes. However the charging/discharging time is usually very short since both the effective capacitance and the resistance in the wire is very small.

People who build compact electric circuits have to be careful to avoid accidentally adding too much unwanted capacitance when they put breaks in the wires or even when two wires run alongside each other.

 

[Drakkith]

1. The battery introduces a potential difference to the circuit when you close the switch. Current starts to flow through the circuit, but when it gets to the capacitor it encounters an open since it can't get through. However, a capacitor is designed to have a significant amount of capacitance, aka the ability to store charge. Current, in this case electrons, flows into one plate, making it more and more negatively charged, and out of the other plate, making that plate positively charged. This process continues until the charges on each plate build up enough to counteract the applied voltage. Since the insulator keeps current from flowing from one plate to the other, you now have two electrically charged plates and no more current flow.

2. Yes, a cut wire is exactly like a very low capacitance capacitor. The principals are identical.

 

[aerograce]

This is not correct - if you put a voltmeter across the capacitor, you will see a potential difference due to the battery.

If you put an ammeter in the circuit you will be able to measure the current that flows.
.

Thank you for your answer. I just have one more doubt now:) according to C=Q/V, when the capacitor is initially not charged, is Q equal to zero here? If it is, potential difference will be zero too right?

 

[Nugatory]

Thank you for your answer. I just have one more doubt now:) according to C=Q/V, when the capacitor is initially not charged, is Q equal to zero here? If it is, potential difference will be zero too right?

As long as the battery is not hooked up, yes. But as soon as you hook up the battery the potential difference will become the battery voltage. Current will start flowing and Q will start to increase as the capacitor charges. Once Q becomes equal to VC the capacitor will be fully charged, Q will stop increasing, and the current will fall to zero.

 

[aerograce]

As long as the battery is not hooked up, yes. But as soon as you hook up the battery the potential difference will become the battery voltage. Current will start flowing and Q will start to increase as the capacitor charges. Once Q becomes equal to VC the capacitor will be fully charged, Q will stop increasing, and the current will fall to zero.

Thank you for your answer. now my doubt is this:
If we apply V=Q/C here

Initially Q=0

Then it means V is also equal to zero?

 

[Integral]

Thank you for your answer. now my doubt is this:
If we apply V=Q/C here

Initially Q=0

Then it means V is also equal to zero?

No, why do you think that?

 

[aerograce]

No, why do you think that?

Because when we want to know the time for charging, we actually apply V=Q/C for all infinitely small time period. So I think V=Q/C is applicable at all time

 

[256bits]

Because when we want to know the time for charging, we actually apply V=Q/C for all infinitely small time period. So I think V=Q/C is applicable at all time

I would think that is true.
Th voltage across the terminals of the capacitor is dependant upon how much charge is held within the capacitor.
If the capacitor is uncharged, then Q=0, and then V=0.

By closing the circuit, charge will begin to flow into the capacitor. As more charge flows into the capacitor, the voltage across the capacitor terminals will increase to satisfy the equation V=Q/C.

Since there is a resistor in series with the capacitor, at the moment of closing the circuit, the voltage across the resistor, Vr, equals the battery voltage E, and the voltage across the capacitor, Vc= 0. When the capacitor is fully charged, Vr = 0 and Vc = E.

At all times E = Vr + Vc.

 

[Simon Bridge]

Thank you for your answer. now my doubt is this:
If we apply V=Q/C here

Initially Q=0

Then it means V is also equal to zero?

Only if there is no other voltage source besides the capacitor.

It means that the voltage due to the charge on the capacitor is zero when there is no charge separation - which is what it would be if there was no battery. But there is a battery. Check it against real life - actually get a capacitor and a resistor and a battery and a voltmeter and see.

Try to get values for R and C so that RC is a decent amount of time - like 5-10seconds.
Hook the voltmeter up so the negative terminal is on the battery's negative terminal and the positive terminal is between the resistor and the capacitor. Go do it.

 

[pscience]

+ and - of capacitor

Which is positive terminal and negative terminal when we make our own capacitor as shown in this video. Thank you for the help.

 

[Simon Bridge]

Parallel-plate capacitors do not have positive and negative terminals.
The positive terminal on a voltmeter is the one marked with a "+" sign.
On a multimeter, it is usually color-coded red.

 

[aerograce]

Only if there is no other voltage source besides the capacitor.

It means that the voltage due to the charge on the capacitor is zero when there is no charge separation - which is what it would be if there was no battery. But there is a battery. Check it against real life - actually get a capacitor and a resistor and a battery and a voltmeter and see.

Try to get values for R and C so that RC is a decent amount of time - like 5-10seconds.
Hook the voltmeter up so the negative terminal is on the battery's negative terminal and the positive terminal is between the resistor and the capacitor. Go do it.

Thank you for your reply. But I want to figure out that why when we start to charge a capacitor in a DC RC circuit, the current is equal to E/R. Does it imply that the potential difference on the two sides of capacitor is zero?

 

[sophiecentaur]

Thank you for your reply. But I want to figure out that why when we start to charge a capacitor in a DC RC circuit, the current is equal to E/R. Does it imply that the potential difference on the two sides of capacitor is zero?

You are correct and there may have been some confusion earlier in the thread. Initially when there is no charge on the Capacitor, the PD across it will be 0V (Q=CV always). That means the whole of the supply volts E will be across the Resistor. As charge flows into the Capacitor, the PD across it will increase and the PD across the Resistor will decrease, exponentially.
E = V_R + V_C (Kirchoff II)
Because I = V/R, this means that the current will also decrease exponentially. The time constant (time to 1/e of any given value) will be RC.

 

[Narayanan KR]

Dear people...if I connect one terminal of battery to a single metallic plate and ground other terminal of the battery will the plate accur static electric charge?

 

[sophiecentaur]

Dear people...if I connect one terminal of battery to a single metallic plate and ground other terminal of the battery will the plate accur static electric charge?

What is your opinion on that? Where would the charge come from
and what sign might it have?

 

[Narayanan KR]

What is your opinion on that? Where would the charge come from
and what sign might it have?

OK ...have you seen the row of metal spikes in lower part of a vanD' Graff generator...it gets charged by a battery ..but its an open circuit! Isn' t it...

 

[sophiecentaur]

OK ...have you seen the row of metal spikes in lower part of a vanD' Graff generator...it gets charged by a battery ..but its an open circuit! Isn' t it...

A Van der Graaff generator works by transferring charge on a moving insulated belt. Work is done to physically move the charges onto the sphere. At this stage in your knowledge of electricity, I would say it is an added level of complication. You should get the simpler cases sorted out first. What has been your source of knowledge about this, so far?

 

[Simon Bridge]

Sophie is correct... concentrate on what a battery does before thinking up more complicated looking situations.
Notice that Sophie did not say anything about whether or not the plate gets a charge, that is something you can work out for youself by careful thought.

 

[sophiecentaur]

Dear people...if I connect one terminal of battery to a single metallic plate and ground other terminal of the battery will the plate accur static electric charge?

Here is something to think about. If no charge has been added to an object - by physically adding electrons or taking them away - it is still quite possible for charges to be displaced within that object. So one side could have a surplus of electrons and another side could have an equal number of electrons missing. This is called polarisation. No net change of charge is involved. This phenomenon accounts for many of the electrostatic effects that we see.
You cannot expect to get to grips with this subject as a result of just Q and A on PF. You need to read round. There are many websites that can help you with this. http://www.district196.org/avhs/dept/science/physics/physicsweb04/AVHSPhysics/Estaticnotes.html that I randomly found.