Class ordering for next upcoming semesters

[JohnTheGreat101]

Hello, I have just taken "Mechanics" or probably better written as Newtonian Mechanics and now I am moving on.
I have the option of going into Electricity and Magnetism or Waves, Optics, and Thermodynamics as they both only have the requirement of calculus 2 and the Newtonian Mechanics class I just took.

I am mainly asking because E n M would make my schedule pretty difficult and the latter would fit very well. I don't know if there's any disadvantage to doing one over the other but I do know most students opt to take E n M first. Any advice is appreciated.

 

[Vanadium 50]

What did your academic advisor say?

 

[gwnorth]

Are you majoring in Physics or are you taking these as elective courses?

 

[Joseph Austin]

Where are you headed? PhD in physics or Elementary School science teacher? And may I assume you are a college undergrad?
WIthout seeing the syllabus, I'd guess the WOT class is a general survey for people not planning to study beyond the Batchelor's degree, while a decent E&M class would cover Maxwell's partial differential equations of the electromagnetic field and prepare you for subsequent courses in modern physics including Relativity and Quantum Mechanics. BTW, if you think your schedule is tough now, what are you expecting in Grad School? On the job??

 

[Frabjous]

Where are you headed? PhD in physics or Elementary School science teacher? And may I assume you are a college undergrad?
WIthout seeing the syllabus, I'd guess the WOT class is a general survey for people not planning to study beyond the Batchelor's degree, while a decent E&M class would cover Maxwell's partial differential equations of the electromagnetic field and prepare you for subsequent courses in modern physics including Relativity and Quantum Mechanics. BTW, if you think your schedule is tough now, what are you expecting in Grad School? On the job??

No. This is a freshman/sophomore physics sequence.

 

[Frabjous]

Hello, I have just taken "Mechanics" or probably better written as Newtonian Mechanics and now I am moving on.
I have the option of going into Electricity and Magnetism or Waves, Optics, and Thermodynamics as they both only have the requirement of calculus 2 and the Newtonian Mechanics class I just took.

I am mainly asking because E n M would make my schedule pretty difficult and the latter would fit very well. I don't know if there's any disadvantage to doing one over the other but I do know most students opt to take E n M first. Any advice is appreciated.

As individual subjects, the order does not matter. The rub is that these classes generally teach other things in them. E&M generally is also about “problem solving” while Waves+ is also about “abstraction”. I would not change the order without talking to the department.

 

[Joseph Austin]

As others commented, you should have an advisor if you are pursuing a degree in something. You will typically need to take X in sophomore year in order to take Y in junior year then Z in senior year. So the question isn't so much what are the pre-reqs for THIS course, but what other courses you must take have THIS course as their prereq. E&M is foundational for Modern Physics. If you don't take E&M now, how will that affect your schedule in later years?
In smaller departments, all courses aren't offered every semester, so the curriculum expects you will take certain courses at certain times, or you may miss your expected graduation date!
If you just need "some science" to satisfy a liberal arts curriculum, I suggest you balance Physics with Molecular Biology or Artificial Intelligence--I'd say they are the future. At the freshman/sophomore level, that probably translates to Organic Chemistry or Computer Science.

 

[jtbell]

To me, this seems like an oddball combination of topics. Waves and optics fit together in the context of "physical optics" (interference and diffraction), but thermodynamics?

I'm guessing that at your institution, the usual first-year physics topics happen to be split up this way into three separate courses. Some places include thermo along with mechanics, and others include it with E&M, in a two-course sequence.

 

[Vanadium 50]

This is not that unusual, especially if the university is on the quarter system. You have mechanics, E&M and waves, and then shorter topics like optics or thermo go in wherever they fit.

The real issue, in my mind, isn't so much this class but the next ones in the sequence. It may be you can take these in either order, but one way will cause more trouble with prereqs for following classes. The academic advisor would know this.

 

[vela]

To me, this seems like an oddball combination of topics. Waves and optics fit together in the context of "physical optics" (interference and diffraction), but thermodynamics?

I'm guessing that at your institution, the usual first-year physics topics happen to be split up this way into three separate courses. Some places include thermo along with mechanics, and others include it with E&M, in a two-course sequence.

Calculus-based physics is typically three semesters. The first semester, which typically covers mechanics, is taken in the freshman year, after students have taken a semester of calculus, and the two remaining semesters are taken in the sophomore year.

At one of the schools I teach at, the second semester of physics is devoted entirely to E&M, which means all topics other than mechanics and E&M—that is, fluids, thermodynamics, mechanical waves and sound, light, geometric optics, wave optics, special relativity, quantum mechanics, nuclear physics—get dumped into the third semester. It's a ridiculous amount of material to cover in one semester.

Most students follow the usual course sequence. I've had a few who took the second and third semesters concurrently, and fewer who took the third semester before the second. I don't think it really matters because the students have to pass all three semesters before they can transfer.

 

[CrysPhys]

Most students follow the usual course sequence. I've had a few who took the second and third semesters concurrently, and fewer who took the third semester before the second. I don't think it really matters because the students have to pass all three semesters before they can transfer.

<<Emphasis added>> So are you talking about a physics curriculum in a two-year community college for students who transfer to a four-year university?

 

[symbolipoint]

Hello, I have just taken "Mechanics" or probably better written as Newtonian Mechanics and now I am moving on.
I have the option of going into Electricity and Magnetism or Waves, Optics, and Thermodynamics as they both only have the requirement of calculus 2 and the Newtonian Mechanics class I just took.

I am mainly asking because E n M would make my schedule pretty difficult and the latter would fit very well. I don't know if there's any disadvantage to doing one over the other but I do know most students opt to take E n M first. Any advice is appreciated.

"opt" for Elect.&Mag. before Waves-Optics?
Are you presently within the beginning series of courses for science & engineering students which goes like, introductory Newtonian Mechanics; Electricty & Magnetism; Modern Physics; (and then maybe Thermodynamics somewhere)? Generally those in order as listed. For sure, ask for academic counseling advice. E&M is very difficult (for most students?), but you could very well find "Modern Physics" at this level to be much easier to learn.

note: The actual Mathematics used in the "Modern Physics" part of the series is generally with much less calculus but with significant and simpler use of Trigonometry.

 

[vela]

<<Emphasis added>> So are you talking about a physics curriculum in a two-year community college for students who transfer to a four-year university?

Yes, but to facilitate the transfer of credits between schools, the courses at the community colleges typically mirror what's taught in intro physics at universities.

 

[gwnorth]

Calculus-based physics is typically three semesters. The first semester, which typically covers mechanics, is taken in the freshman year, after students have taken a semester of calculus, and the two remaining semesters are taken in the sophomore year.

This is the sequence my son's school followed:

First year

Semester 1

Intro to Physics I - linear and rotational mechanics - kinematics, dynamics, and the relevant conservation laws

Calculus I - Functions: limits, continuity, derivatives, optimization, curve sketching. Antiderivative, definite integral, techniques of integration

Semester 2

Intro to Physics II - simple harmonic motion, waves, interference, electrostatics, magnetostatics and an introduction to quantum physics

Calculus II - additional techniques of integration, applications of definite integrals, differential equations, polar coordinates, parametrized curves. Sequences, infinite series, power series. Partial derivatives, double integrals

Semester 1 or 2

Linear Algebra I - Vector spaces given by solutions to linear systems. Linear independence, dimension. Determinants. Eigenvalues, eigenvectors and diagonalisation. Complex numbers.

2nd Year
E&M I - Electric and magnetic fields, electric potential, Maxwell’s equations, D.C. circuits.

E&M II - Differential form of Maxwell’s equations, A.C. circuits.

Modern Physics - Special relativity. Introductory quantum physics.

Mechanics - Dynamics of a particle, simple harmonic motion and resonance, central field problem, many-particle systems, non-inertial systems, generalized coordinates and Lagrange’s equations.

Advanced Calculus I - Multiple integration, line and surface integrals and applications. The classical integration theorems of Green, Gauss and Stokes.

Intro to Differential Equations - First order ordinary differential equations and higher order linear ordinary differential equations including Laplace transforms and series solutions.

Scientific Computing

Introductory Lab

 

[Vanadium 50]

Before spending too much effort on answering the OP's question, we might see if he comes back. He seems to have wandered away instead of clarifying what was asked.

 

[JohnTheGreat101]

<<Emphasis added>> So are you talking about a physics curriculum in a two-year community college for students who transfer to a four-year university?

Yes, I am looking to transfer to a four year university from a cc. It follows a semester system.

 

[JohnTheGreat101]

What did your academic advisor say?

I have not asked. Per my community college, I cannot talk to someone until the next semester starts as they are off for the summer. My Fall semester starts around Mid August.(This also applies to help with transferring since I will be applying this fall .-. ) This is what they told me in my last talk with a counselor in person which was around the middle of the past Spring semester(around April)

As a side note, it's definitely not the best. It's mainly general counselors. I regret taking up some of the advice they've given in the past. For example, I was told to take a class solving ODE's before Linear Algebra because that was the "correct order" but after taking and passing that class, I regret not taking LE first.

 

[JohnTheGreat101]

as for syllabi of each class, there is no online copy. I can post the class descriptions so hopefully this helps

EnM: When presented with a physical situation and asked to solve a particular problem in, for example, electricity and magnetism (i.e. the creation of an electric current by a changing magnetic field), the student will follow a logical process based on well-established physics principles (i.e. Maxwell’s equations) and demonstrate ability to use basic mathematical techniques, including calculus.

Optics Waves thermo: When presented with a physical situation and asked to solve a particular problem in thermodynamics, wave phenomena, or optics, the student will follow a logical process based on well-established physics principles (i.e. laws of thermodynamics) and demonstrate ability to use basic mathematical techniques, including calculus.

These are the last two physics classes before I transfer. Not totally sure what's after in terms of what people usually take but I do know I want to potentially minor in physics as a Chemical Engineer (the mechanics class I took had a really killer professor that made me like physics a lot more than I thought I would. He provided a lot of resources that I found to be really interesting)

 

[Muu9]

Enroll in both as soon as you can, and withdraw one of them within the add-drop deadline based on talking to your counselor and professors? (Specifically, if the professor teaching waves believes E&M is a soft prerequisite or not)

Could you ask your mechanics professor?

 

[MidgetDwarf]

To me, this seems like an oddball combination of topics. Waves and optics fit together in the context of "physical optics" (interference and diffraction), but thermodynamics?

I'm guessing that at your institution, the usual first-year physics topics happen to be split up this way into three separate courses. Some places include thermo along with mechanics, and others include it with E&M, in a two-course sequence.

At my cc.

Mechanics included waves. Particularly up to harmonic occilators.

We should have also covered fluids in Mechanics, but no time.

2nd semester was intro EM and Thermo,
But Thermo was taught first.

3rd semester was modern physics and optics.

At the university i transferred to.

Mechanics, EM, then 2 classes to finish the typical 3 calculus based physics.

Ie., thermo and modern physics. But i do not recall the subcomponents, since i never too these classes [took them at CC].

 

[MidgetDwarf]

I have not asked. Per my community college, I cannot talk to someone until the next semester starts as they are off for the summer. My Fall semester starts around Mid August.(This also applies to help with transferring since I will be applying this fall .-. ) This is what they told me in my last talk with a counselor in person which was around the middle of the past Spring semester(around April)

As a side note, it's definitely not the best. It's mainly general counselors. I regret taking up some of the advice they've given in the past. For example, I was told to take a class solving ODE's before Linear Algebra because that was the "correct order" but after taking and passing that class, I regret not taking LE first.

You can email the professors directy. Try going under department/directory.

If not present, typically not for part timers, then google is your friend.

I only had one instance when a professor listed on his website, that he should not be bothered [sabbatical].

 

[Vanadium 50]

I have to say "We'll only advise you on which courses to take for Fall after the Fall semester starts" is goofy. I have a hard time imagining how this can possibly work. Surely there is more to this story. But given where we are, I agree with @Muu9 - enroll in both, and then meet with an advisor as soon as you can to figure out which to drop.