Comparing Image Quality: DSLR vs. Point & Shoot vs. Smartphone

[russ_watters]

Everybody keeps insisting on this. I keep saying I was really expecting that, all flexibility advantages aside, in a straight up comparison, the DSLR would produce a higher quality image - less noise, less fuzziness, more crisp.

Ok, well now you know that in optimal conditions, cameras are chip resolution limited, not optics limited.

And now you should also understand that your test setup contradicts your stated goal: you said you wanted to test what you pay the extra $ for, then set up a test that eliminated the effect of the things that cost more $... like optics and a big chip.

 

[Andy Resnick]

The biggest advantages of a DSLR are the sensor size (which approaches that of a piece of film) and interchangeable lenses. The bigger sensor means bigger pixels which means better low-light sensitivity and lower noise at higher sensitivities. <snip>

That's partially correct: a larger sensor also increases the field of view.

 

[M Quack]

Bigger field of view is nice if you shoot wide angle.

 

[AlephZero]

Bigger field of view is nice if you shoot wide angle.

... so long as the optics can handle the bigger FOV without too much distortion, of course.

But if you just want bragging rights on pixels, Nokia just has announced a 41 Mp smartphone camera. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-17178014

 

[Drakkith]

Everybody keeps insisting on this. I keep saying I was really expecting that, all flexibility advantages aside, in a straight up comparison, the DSLR would produce a higher quality image - less noise, less fuzziness, more crisp.

Yes, it is unfortunate that so many people expect a camera to simply be "better" just because it is more expensive. The truth is that there is so much more to a camera than simply resolution or image sharpness at a single distance.

 

[Andy Resnick]

Bigger field of view is nice if you shoot wide angle.

... so long as the optics can handle the bigger FOV without too much distortion, of course.

I do, and it does. (Nikkor 15mm f/3.5). Zero distortion.

 

[Mech_Engineer]

That's partially correct: a larger sensor also increases the field of view.

That assumes either sensor uses the same optics (for example in an SLR that has a full-frame chip vs. an SLR with a crop-format). For the purposes of comparing a cell phone camera to an SLR (which use completely different sets of optics) the FOV can be designed to be basically the same.

 

[Mech_Engineer]

The older DSLR and the newer camera phone might not be that different in detectors. A newer DSLR, on the other hand, will dance circles around the old DSLR.

It all depends on the SLR. I suspect he's got a Canon Digital Rebel XTi, in which case there really isn't a cell phone camera out there that can compete in anything other than sunny conditions. Paired with interchangeable lenses and superior autofocus, there really isn't a contest (but that of course assumes they're both being utilized to their potential).

Our department has two DSLR cameras, and older one and newer one. Not much difference in MPs, but huge difference in the detectors. I can get crisp photos of things with the newer one that couldn't even be seen as more than a pixelated blur with the older one.

Do you mind telling us which model cameras you're comparing? I've had problems with SLR's in the past, but it had more to do with my lack of understanding/locating the proper camera settings. It all goes back to seeing the camera as a tool, not a magical perfect picture taker.

The colors appear more "true" to what I see by eye with the newer one, and the ability to enlarge a photo for detail is where I REALLY see the difference. In a small jpeg clip, I won't see as much difference, but when cropping and enlarging to show an area of detail, the sorts of things we use macro lenses to photograph, the difference is astounding.

Sounds like color balance or white balance issues, but some cameras do a better job than others when it comes to their "AUTO" mode.

We got a Nikon D3X at work with a Nikkor 200mm f/4 Macro lens, that takes some of the most amazing macro pictures I've ever seen! 1:1 scale on a 24.5Mp sensor is just breathtaking!

 

[Andy Resnick]

For the purposes of comparing a cell phone camera to an SLR (which use completely different sets of optics) the FOV can be designed to be basically the same.

Really? good luck trying to design a distortion-free lens that provides a 118 degree FOV (the Nikkor 13mm on 35mm format) in even a 1.6x crop factor. A 60 mm Hypergon gives a 135 degree field of view on a large format image- translating that to a 1.6x crop sensor would require a rear focal length of 2mm... sure, "basically the same".

 

[Moonbear]

Do you mind telling us which model cameras you're comparing? I've had problems with SLR's in the past, but it had more to do with my lack of understanding/locating the proper camera settings. It all goes back to seeing the camera as a tool, not a magical perfect picture taker.

I would if I could remember. They all sound like alphabet soup and random numbers to me. With the newer one, there are definitely a lot more settings to mess up. I get a lot of help from one of our technical staff who is geeky enough and has the patience to read the manual plus other books on how to use it when I tell him what I want to do. The downside is I usually have to listen to the SAME explanation of the gizmo he wants for the tripod to play with some technique he read about and wants to try, even though nobody can think of a good reason to need that.

Sounds like color balance or white balance issues, but some cameras do a better job than others when it comes to their "AUTO" mode.

I think it's more than color or white balance. I can't really correct for it to make up the difference, and when everything in the photo is shades of beige, picking up subtle color differences is a big deal. But, that's straying too much from what Dave wants to do to be relevant to this discussion. On the other hand, that might be the point too, knowing what you want to do and getting what you need for that. I'm perfectly happy with a camera phone picture for most things. The specific needs I have at work require something quite different. Different tools for different tasks.

 

[DaveC426913]

3 more tests. These ones at dusk. Medium to long range. No touchups at all.

These are a tiny 1/10x1/10 snippet from the whole pic - but at 100%.

I had no choice for the middle one but to boost the ASA to 400. I simply could not hold the camera steady. But the left & right two I took on auto.

You can definitely see how the DSLR pulls ahead of the other two.

 

[Andy Resnick]

<snip>

You can definitely see how the DSLR pulls ahead of the other two.

Indeed!

 

[Andre]

Dave, I guess your potential 400D has the 18-55mm USM version. Ask Borek about the quality of that one and you know why the result is so blurry, also due to lacking image stabilisation. It's successor the 18-55mm IS is a huge improvement, which has a new successor too recently.

 

[Mech_Engineer]

It's true, the stock lens isn't the nicest one ever to exist. The great thing about SLR's is you can buy a lens to match your shooting style and needs.

 

[Mech_Engineer]

Really? good luck trying to design a distortion-free lens that provides a 118 degree FOV (the Nikkor 13mm on 35mm format) in even a 1.6x crop factor. A 60 mm Hypergon gives a 135 degree field of view on a large format image- translating that to a 1.6x crop sensor would require a rear focal length of 2mm... sure, "basically the same".

You have some special requirements, but the point is the field of view is dependent on more than just the size of the sensor. FOV is calculated using the sensor size, lens focal length, sensor distance, etc.

At very wide angles you may be right that a smaller crop-format sensor cannot compete, but it's because the focal length of the lens would have to get prohibitively small (e.g. less than 10mm) and you get into fisheye territory at that point.

 

[M Quack]

Dave, I guess your potential 400D has the 18-55mm USM version. Ask Borek about the quality of that one and you know why the result is so blurry, also due to lacking image stabilisation. It's successor the 18-55mm IS is a huge improvement, which has a new successor too recently.

These kind of tests should always be carried out on a tripod. Otherwise you just measure the caffeine concentration in the tester.

On a tripod IS or no IS (or IS off) should not make any difference.

Having said that, chromatic aberation does seem to be better on the newer version, and that has nothing to do with the IS.

 

[Andre]

These kind of tests should always be carried out on a tripod. Otherwise you just measure the caffeine concentration in the tester.

On a tripod IS or no IS (or IS off) should not make any difference.

Sure, but Dave is implying that he didn't use one, for the first test at least

 

[Andy Resnick]

You have some special requirements, but the point is the field of view is dependent on more than just the size of the sensor. FOV is calculated using the sensor size, lens focal length, sensor distance, etc.

Exactly- which is why I originally pointed out that larger sensor sizes do more than just give you more light sensitivity.

 

[DaveC426913]

These kind of tests should always be carried out on a tripod. Otherwise you just measure the caffeine concentration in the tester.

Well, you test the camera's ability under real-world conditions.

If I had really wanted those pics, I'd not be able to make use of a camera that wasn't fast enough to freeze the image.

 

[M Quack]

Well, if the camera phone fulfills all your needs, all the better for you! I wish you all the best.

 

[DaveC426913]

Well, if the camera phone fulfills all your needs, all the better for you! I wish you all the best.

I'm not sure how you come to that from where we were. Did I imply any of them fulfilled all my needs?

 

[M Quack]

Yes.

My reading of this whole thread is that you try to convince us that a in a 30km/h zone with speed bumps every 10m a Nissan Micra performs as well as a 5 series BWM or a Ferrari. That may be the case, but I fail to see the relevance of this particular test.

Nothing personal, but I just don't get the point you are trying to make.

 

[Andre]

The point is that there is better use for a few $$$ than buying an old DSLR with an inferior lens.

 

[Mech_Engineer]

It depends on ho much it costs, and what it's condition is. I've take thousands of excellent pictures with that exact camera.

In the end it's a tool, you have to know how to implement it appropriately.

 

[Andy Resnick]

Yes.

My reading of this whole thread is that you try to convince us that a in a 30km/h zone with speed bumps every 10m a Nissan Micra performs as well as a 5 series BWM or a Ferrari. That may be the case, but I fail to see the relevance of this particular test.

Nothing personal, but I just don't get the point you are trying to make.

I'm not sure anyone is trying to convince you of anything in this thread. Use what you like.

 

[DaveC426913]

Yes.

My reading of this whole thread is that you try to convince us that a in a 30km/h zone with speed bumps every 10m a Nissan Micra performs as well as a 5 series BWM or a Ferrari. That may be the case, but I fail to see the relevance of this particular test.

Nothing personal, but I just don't get the point you are trying to make.

Your analogy is spot-on. But I was not trying to convince anyone; I have merely been expressing my own pre-expectations. I did indeed expect the Beemer to perform better at 30km/h. It took me some convincing to concede that they should perform similarly.

 

[M Quack]

Surely they must be able to do the same thing. They are basically the same, internal combustion engine, a heap of gears and some wheels :-)

Anyways, the right tool for the right job. The Ferrari does not fit in my garage and cannot deal with the potholes around here.

The camera phone did perform better than I expected, see my first post. But note that most people correctly identified the DSLR pic

 

[feathermoon]

I'd suggest taking pictures of plucked guitar strings and your cityscape at night.