Confusion on relative velocity sign

In summary, when Chris swims upstream a distance L after swimming downstream, the velocity of Chris relative to the Earth is given by the equation c_E = c + v. However, there may be confusion regarding the direction of the velocities as the upstream speed is typically written as v-c, but in this case, with the current speed being v and the swimmer speed being c, the upstream speed would be c-v. This is due to the use of an upstream-positive coordinate system.
  • #1
niko_niko
16
1
Homework Statement
Problem: Two swimmers, Chris and Sarah, start together at the same point on the bank of a wide stream that flows with a speed v. Both move at the same speed c (where c > v) relative to the water. Chris swims downstream a distance L and then upstream the same distance.
Relevant Equations
v_PA = v_PB + u_BA
The downstream part is no problem: c_E = c + v.
My only question is why is the upstream velocity of Chris relative to the Earth c-v, as said by the textbook, and not v-c? Assuming v is to the right and positive, doesn't c become negative since it is in the opposite direction?
 
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  • #2
niko_niko said:
Homework Statement: Problem: Two swimmers, Chris and Sarah, start together at the same point on the bank of a wide stream that flows with a speed v. Both move at the same speed c (where c > v) relative to the water. Chris swims downstream a distance L and then upstream the same distance.
Relevant Equations: v_PA = v_PB + u_BA

The downstream part is no problem: c_E = c + v.
My only question is why is the upstream velocity of Chris relative to the Earth c-v, as said by the textbook, and not v-c? Assuming v is to the right and positive, doesn't c become negative since it is in the opposite direction?
In terms of velocity, if downstream is positive, then upstream is negative. If you change the sign of ##c##, then you are changing the positive direction.
 
  • #3
The upstream speed is, of course, ##v -c##, as speed is non-negative.
 
  • #4
PeroK said:
The upstream speed is, of course, ##v -c##, as speed is non-negative.
For some reason, the current speed is ##v## while the swimmer speed is ##c##. With ##c > v##, I make the upstream speed ##c-v##.

Authors would be well advised to pick mnemonic variable names.

If the textbook uses the phrase "upstream velocity", this could be interpreted to indicate the use of an upstream-positive coordinate system. So the positive value ##c-v## would be appropriate.
 
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Likes Gavran and PeroK

Related to Confusion on relative velocity sign

What is relative velocity?

Relative velocity is the velocity of one object as observed from another object. It is calculated by subtracting the velocity of the observer from the velocity of the object being observed. This concept is crucial in understanding how different observers perceive the motion of objects differently depending on their own state of motion.

How do you determine the sign of relative velocity?

The sign of relative velocity depends on the chosen frame of reference and the direction of the velocities. If two objects are moving in the same direction, their relative velocity is the difference between their speeds. If they are moving in opposite directions, their relative velocity is the sum of their speeds. A positive sign typically indicates that the object is moving in the chosen positive direction relative to the observer, while a negative sign indicates motion in the opposite direction.

Why do I get different signs for relative velocity in different frames of reference?

The sign of relative velocity changes because the direction and magnitude of velocities are dependent on the chosen frame of reference. For example, if you switch from one inertial frame to another that is moving with respect to the first, the velocities of objects as seen from this new frame will be different, leading to a different relative velocity. This is a direct consequence of the principle of relativity, which states that the laws of physics are the same in all inertial frames.

Can relative velocity be negative?

Yes, relative velocity can be negative. A negative relative velocity indicates that the object is moving in the direction opposite to the chosen positive direction relative to the observer. It is crucial to establish a clear frame of reference and a positive direction before calculating relative velocity to correctly interpret the sign.

How do you solve problems involving relative velocity in two dimensions?

To solve problems involving relative velocity in two dimensions, you need to break down the velocities into their respective components along the x and y axes. Calculate the relative velocity components for each axis separately and then combine these components vectorially to find the overall relative velocity. This often involves using trigonometric functions to resolve the velocities into components and then applying vector addition to find the resultant relative velocity.

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