Conservation of momentum (center of mass) in projectile launches

In summary, conservation of momentum in projectile launches refers to the principle that the total momentum of a system remains constant if no external forces act upon it. When a projectile is launched, the momentum before and after the launch is analyzed, particularly focusing on the center of mass of the system. The system's momentum is conserved in both horizontal and vertical directions, leading to predictable trajectories and velocities. Understanding this principle is crucial for accurately predicting the motion of projectiles and designing efficient launch systems.
  • #1
TheGreatDeadOne
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0
Homework Statement
A projectile of mass ##m## is fired with an initial velocity of modulus ##v_0## at an elevation angle of ##45^\circ##. The projectile explodes in the air into two pieces of masses ##m/3## and ##2m/3##. The pieces continue moving in the same plane as the entire projectile and reach the ground together. The smaller piece falls at a distance of ##R_{1}=(3v_{0}^{2})/(2g)## from the launch point. Determine the range of the larger piece. Disregard air resistance
Relevant Equations
Listed below
I've already solved this problem using another resource (just get the coordinate of the range of the center of mass and from there, get it for the larger mass ##R_{2}=(3v_{0}^{2})/(4g))##:

Range CM: $$R_{(CM)} = \frac{v_{0}^2 sin{2\theta}}{2g}=\frac{v_{0}^{2}}{2}$$

then:

$$ R_{(CM)}= \frac{v_{0}{2}}{2} = \frac{m_{1}R_{1}+m_{2}R_{2}}{M} \rightarrow \frac{v_{0}{2}}{2} = \frac{1v_{0}}{2g} + \frac{2R_{2}}{3} $$

$$\therefore R_{2}=\frac{3v_{0}^2}{4g} $$

Trying to solve using the conservation of linear momentum, we have:

$$m\vec v_{0} = \frac{1}{3}m\vec v_{1} + \frac{2}{3}m\vec v_{2}$$

In the most general possible case, we know that the fragments can also perform an oblique launch. As we know the angle associated with these new oblique launches, we also determine the horizontal component associated with each fragment. So:

$$ v_{1x} =
\frac{1}{3}v_{0}\cos(\theta)
\quad \text{and} \quad v_{2x} =
\frac{2}{3}v_{0}\cos(\theta)
$$

In addition, we can equalize the flying time intervals of each fragment by the horizontal component of each fragment (uniform movement), but this is where I get stuck:

$$ t_{1} = t_{2} \longrightarrow \frac{R_{1}}{v_{1x}}=\frac{R_{2}}{v_{2x}} \longrightarrow R_{2}= \frac{R_{1}v_{2x}}{v_{1x}}=\frac{3v_{0}^2}{g} (????????)$$

What could I be doing wrong here? I'm sure I'm missing something very obvious.
 
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  • #2
Where does the factor of 3 in the denominator come from and why did it disappear in the next equation? $$R_{(CM)} = \frac{v_{0}^2 sin{2\theta}}{3g}=\frac{v_{0}^{2}}{2}$$Anyway, you know that, if the projectile did not explode, it would land at ##R=\dfrac{v_0^2}{g}##. Since the two pieces land simultaneously, their CM will still land there (why?). Say this with an equation.
 
  • #3
kuruman said:
Where does the factor of 3 in the denominator come from and why did it disappear in the next equation? $$R_{(CM)} = \frac{v_{0}^2 sin{2\theta}}{3g}=\frac{v_{0}^{2}}{2}$$Anyway, you know that, if the projectile did not explode, it would land at ##R=\dfrac{v_0^2}{g}##. Since the two pieces land simultaneously, their CM will still land there (why?). Say this with an equation.
"Where does the factor of 3 in the denominator come from and why did it disappear in the next equation?"

Typing error.
 
  • #4
OK. Please explain why this momentum conservation equation is correct applicable when the external force of gravity is acting on the projectile before and after it explodes.
$$m\vec v_{0} = \frac{1}{3}m\vec v_{1} + \frac{2}{3}m\vec v_{2}$$
 
  • #5
I suspect OP uses ##v_0## twice in this exercise: once for the launch and once for the velocity of the center of mass at the moment of detonation

##\ ##
 
  • #6
BvU said:
I suspect OP uses ##v_0## twice in this exercise: once for the launch and once for the velocity of the center of mass at the moment of detonation

##\ ##
It's not really an explosion - the question uses that term - because then we'd be adding energy to the system. It's more like a decoupling of the mass ##m##, which is why I think it's the same ##v_{0x}## for the other particles.
 
  • #7
kuruman said:
OK. Please explain why this momentum conservation equation is correct applicable when the external force of gravity is acting on the projectile before and after it explodes.
$$m\vec v_{0} = \frac{1}{3}m\vec v_{1} + \frac{2}{3}m\vec v_{2}$$
Momentum conserves only in the ##\hat x## direction. What I wrote later there was just me wasting ink from my pen.

So

$$m\vec v_{0} = \frac{1}{3}m\vec v_{1} + \frac{2}{3}m\vec v_{2} \longrightarrow mv_{0} \cos{\theta} = \frac{m}{3}v_{1x}\cos{\theta} + \frac{2m}{3}v_{2x}\sin{\theta}$$

The range of the CM, I had already calculated - in the first solution - and posted above.

Both the CM and the other two particles have the same flight time, which implies:

$$T_{CM}=T_{1}=T_{2} \longrightarrow \frac{R_{CM}}{v_{0x}} = \frac{R_{1}}{v_{1x}}=\frac{R_{2}}{v_{2x}}$$
 
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  • #8
TheGreatDeadOne said:
It's not really an explosion - the question uses that term - because then we'd be adding energy to the system. It's more like a decoupling of the mass ##m##, which is why I think it's the same ##v_{0x}## for the other particles.
But we are ! (adding energy to the system), otherwise ##m_1## couldn't land 1.5 times further than the center of mass .

The two fragments must have the same vertical speed, or else the landings aren't simultaneous ('together').
So the detonation pushes ##m_1## forward and ##m_2## backward in the center of mass system where the forward fragment goes twice as fast as the backward.

They fly three quarters of ##R_{CM}## apart before hitting the ground.

Now you want to count unknowns and equations and end up with an equal number of each...

Make sure you explain variables when communicating...

##\ ##
 
  • #9
Hey, what's this ?

1712446429614.png


##\ ##
 
  • #10
BvU said:
But we are ! (adding energy to the system), otherwise ##m_1## couldn't land 1.5 times further than the center of mass .

The two fragments must have the same vertical speed, or else the landings aren't simultaneous ('together').
So the detonation pushes ##m_1## forward and ##m_2## backward in the center of mass system where the forward fragment goes twice as fast as the backward.

They fly three quarters of ##R_{CM}## apart before hitting the ground.

Now you want to count unknowns and equations and end up with an equal number of each...

Make sure you explain variables when communicating...

##\ ##
Yes, but considering it that way, there would be no way to solve it via momentum conservation. In the question we have (it's in the Homework Statement): "The pieces continue moving in the same plane as the entire projectile and reach the ground together.", so the components are equal in both directions. (except that for obvious reasons, in the ##\hat y## direction the momentum is not conserved).
 
  • #11
BvU said:
Hey, what's this ?

View attachment 342916
Old question, and I forgot about it (It's not worth reviving an old thread). Going through some papers I found these notes and tried to redo it. PS: At the time I already had solved this problem in another way before making this older post (it's in the first part of the description), I just got stuck trying for conservation of linear momentum
 
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  • #12
This equation is wasting, if not ink from your pen, pixels from my screen and does not convey what you think it does.
$$m\vec v_{0} = \frac{1}{3}m\vec v_{1} + \frac{2}{3}m\vec v_{2} \longrightarrow m\vec v_{0} \cos{\theta} = \frac{m}{3}\vec v_{1x}\cos{\theta} + \frac{2m}{3}\vec v_{2x}\sin{\theta}$$If you put an arrow over a symbol, it means a vector that has magnitude and direction. Subscripts ##x## etc. denote components. Writing something like ##\vec v_{1x}## sends a mixed message to the reader. Try to be moe careful with what you put down.

TheGreatDeadOne said:
t's not really an explosion - the question uses that term - because then we'd be adding energy to the system. It's more like a decoupling of the mass m, which is why I think it's the same v0x for the other particles.
If it's just a decoupling, the masses, originally moving with zero relative velocity, will be moving with zero relative velocity after the decoupling and will land together at the same location, no? That is required by Newton's first law.
TheGreatDeadOne said:
Old question, and I forgot about it (It's not worth reviving an old thread). Going through some papers I found these notes and tried to redo it. PS: At the time I already had solved this problem in another way before making this older post (it's in the first part of the description), I just got stuck trying for conservation of linear momentum
It seems to me that you have fallen into a rabbit hole. Momentum conservation is the way to solve this and you can do it in your head. Here are the pieces that you need to assemble.
1. Momentum conservation in the horizontal direction says that the momentum of the CM does not change throughout the motion. That's because . . .
2. . . . after the explosion the pieces stay airborne for the same amount of time therefore the CM lands at the same time as they do.
3. The CM lands at horizontal distance ##\dfrac{v_0^2}{g}=R.##
4. The piece that has half the mass as the other lands at ##\dfrac{3v_0^2}{2g}=\frac{3}{2}R.##
5. The piece that has twicw the mass as the other lands at ##x.##

Question: How is ##x## related to the landing positions in (4) and (5) ?
 
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  • #13
BvU said:
They fly three quarters of RCM apart before hitting the ground.

Now you want to count unknowns and equations and end up with an equal number of each...
Ah, I think I am searching for something that isn't asked for (*). You have already established when the fragments land (same time as without detonation: ##2v_0/g##) and where the larger fragment lands (## R_{2}=\frac{3v_{0}^2}{4g}##). Exercise done.

Your question is is what's going wrong when
TheGreatDeadOne said:
Trying to solve using the conservation of linear momentum, we have:
and everybody gets confused.

@kuruman puts us on the right track in #12 ('you are using momentum conservation already')

(*) and I was wondering if more detail (for example the moment of detonation) can be calculated from the given information. Preliminary guess: no.

##\ ##
 
  • #14
For whatever it's worth, here is a plot of one of the many solutions. The projection angle looks greater than 45° because the axes are not equalized.
Input parameters
Initial velocity components: ##v_{0x}=v_{0y}=10~##m/s
Horizontal position of explosion: ##\Delta x = 6~##m
Velocity change of smaller mass: ##\Delta v_1 = +7~##m/s
Velocity change of larger mass: ##\Delta v_2 = -3.5~##m/s
##g=10~##m/s2

Projectile Explosion.png

BvU said:
Preliminary guess: no.
Correct. To generate the plot I picked a horizontal distance of 6 m for the explosion and then figured out the initial velocity of the smaller mass needed to reach ##\frac{3}{2}R## from the launch point. The larger mass was given half that velocity as required by momentum conservation. How much velocity is needed can be translated into how much energy is released during the explosion.

Note that if the explosion occurs when the projectile is directly above the ##\frac{3}{2}R## point, it must deliver an impulse that exactly cancels the horizontal velocity of the larger piece which will then drop straight down while the smaller piece reaches its expected destination. The explosion cannot occur past that point because the larger piece will have to be kicked backwards which means that the smaller piece will land past its expected landing point. In other words, there are limits to where the explosion can occur while fulfilling the statement of the problem.

(Edited for typos)
 
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  • #15
kuruman said:
The explosion cannot occur past that point because the larger piece will have to be kicked backwards which means that the smaller piece will land past its expected landing point. In other words, there are a limits to where the explosion can occur while fulfilling the statement of the problem.
Respectfully beg to differ ! I see no objection against m2 being kicked backwards...

1712510675219.png
 
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  • #16
Of course! I did it in my head and it didn't register that the projection angle after the explosion is below the horizontal.
 
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FAQ: Conservation of momentum (center of mass) in projectile launches

What is the principle of conservation of momentum?

The principle of conservation of momentum states that in a closed system, the total momentum before an event must equal the total momentum after the event, provided no external forces act on the system. This principle is fundamental in analyzing collisions and projectile motion, including launches.

How does the center of mass relate to projectile motion?

The center of mass of a system is the point where the mass of the system can be considered to be concentrated for the purpose of analyzing motion. In projectile motion, the trajectory of the center of mass follows a parabolic path, and its motion can be analyzed separately from the individual motions of the components of the system.

What factors affect the conservation of momentum during a projectile launch?

Can you explain how momentum is conserved in a two-body system during a launch?

How does air resistance affect momentum conservation in projectile launches?

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