Coriolus effect, precession in 4+1D?

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In summary, the conversation discusses the Coriolus effect on an imaginary 4+1D planet, with one person arguing that the acceleration vector should always be zero due to the planet being rigid. They provide a proof and another argument for their stance. The conversation then shifts to discussing a simpler problem of a 4D gyroscope in a gravitational field and whether it would precess or not. The person concludes that it would not, unless it had a planar axle. They also mention their struggles with understanding tensors and suggest that this area may be too difficult for them.
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Hornbein
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Here is a derivation of the Coriolus effect on an imaginary 4+1D planet.

http://hi.gher.space/forum/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=2106

It seems wrong to me. I think that the planet is rigid, so the latitude of a point on the surface, ϑ, is a constant. It's derivative will always be zero. The first two entries to that acceleration vector vanish. The third entry is the acceleration in the ϑ direction, so that has to be zero too. So the whole vector should always be zero.

Proof: Each point satisfies a^2+b^2+c^2+d^2 = 1, with the two planes of rotation being defined by [a,b] and [c,d]. (Clifford proved this in the 19th century.) So both a^2+b^2=x^2 and c^2+d^2=y^2 are constants. The latitude ϑ=arctan(x/y) is then also a constant.

Another argument is this. Any rigid 4D object rotates in two planes. If the periods of the planes are equal then the planes aren't unique : any two orthogonal planes will do. In other words, every point on the surface rotates in the same way: it's path has the same shape as the path of any other point. So the Coriolus force has to be the same everywhere. In this case, this person's equation shows the force as nonzero and varying as a function of ϑ. That can't be right.

You may ask, why don't I ask them? They've been running this forum for a decade, and I don't want to annoy or anger the natives by challenging them. I may be making a wrong assumption.

Since I couldn't do the math myself right off, so I hoped to work up to it by going to a simpler problem. Suppose I have a 4D gyroscope in a gravitational field. The axle takes away one degree of freedom. Now tilt the axis. Will the gyroscope precess, and if so, how? The familiar 3D math doesn't work. When I try to do it in 4D I get an infinite number of solutions. I'm making a wrong assumption, but I don't know what. The Wikipedia angular velocity page shows how it is done with tensors, but I don't know tensors, Hodge duals, wedge products, and so forth. Hmmm, maybe this area is too hard for me and I should do something else.
 
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Hornbein said:
Since I couldn't do the math myself right off, so I hoped to work up to it by going to a simpler problem. Suppose I have a 4D gyroscope in a gravitational field. The axle takes away one degree of freedom. Now tilt the axis. Will the gyroscope precess, and if so, how? The familiar 3D math doesn't work. When I try to do it in 4D I get an infinite number of solutions. I'm making a wrong assumption, but I don't know what. The Wikipedia angular velocity page shows how it is done with tensors, but I don't know tensors, Hodge duals, wedge products, and so forth. Hmmm, maybe this area is too hard for me and I should do something else.

The answer is: such a gyroscope wouldn't precess. I'm not sure what it would do. I guess it would simply fall over

To get a 4D gyroscope that precesses it has to have a planar axle. One might suppose it would be shaped like an X in order to save on materials, with two perpendicular points touching the "ground."

In general an ND gyroscope would have a (N-2)D axle.
 

FAQ: Coriolus effect, precession in 4+1D?

1) What is the Coriolis effect?

The Coriolis effect is the apparent deflection of objects, such as projectiles or air masses, due to the rotation of the Earth. This effect is caused by the Earth's rotation causing a difference in linear velocity between points on the Earth's surface.

2) How does the Coriolis effect impact weather patterns?

The Coriolis effect plays a significant role in the formation of weather patterns, particularly in the creation of large-scale wind systems. It causes winds to rotate counterclockwise in the Northern Hemisphere and clockwise in the Southern Hemisphere, leading to the formation of cyclones and anticyclones.

3) What is precession in 4+1D?

Precession in 4+1D refers to the precession of the Earth's axis in four spatial dimensions and one temporal dimension. It is a phenomenon that occurs due to the gravitational forces of other celestial bodies, causing the Earth's rotational axis to slowly change over time.

4) How does precession in 4+1D affect the Earth's climate?

Precession in 4+1D has a significant impact on the Earth's climate, as it plays a role in the timing of the Earth's seasons. The changing orientation of the Earth's axis affects the amount of solar radiation received by different parts of the Earth, which can lead to changes in temperature and precipitation patterns.

5) Is the Coriolis effect and precession in 4+1D related?

Yes, the Coriolis effect and precession in 4+1D are both caused by the Earth's rotation and have a significant impact on the Earth's weather and climate patterns. However, they are two separate phenomena with different causes and effects.

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