Could Struggling with Math Affect My Understanding of High-Level Physics?

[Brockholc94]

Hey everybody, I couldn't think of a creative title name, but I'm in a strange quandary.
I have a great grasp for knowledge of physics and science in general. If i ever hear or see a problems that is science-specific, it comes naturally to me. However, strangely enough, my mathematical ability is relatively average. Is this something that could threaten my comprehension of physics in much much higher college level applications? Basically complex physics i understand completely, even with calculus-based applications for example. But when it comes to calculus, or math in general, i can't balance the two

 

[Mentallic]

Hey everybody, I couldn't think of a creative title name, but I'm in a strange quandary.
I have a great grasp for knowledge of physics and science in general. If i ever hear or see a problems that is science-specific, it comes naturally to me. However, strangely enough, my mathematical ability is relatively average. Is this something that could threaten my comprehension of physics in much much higher college level applications? Basically complex physics i understand completely, even with calculus-based applications for example. But when it comes to calculus, or math in general, i can't balance the two

Well let's say you do have a mild form of autism, will knowing this change your life in any way? I quickly grasp many mathematical concepts with ease as you do with science, but I can't for the hell of me figure out probabilities. If you have autism, then so do I

 

[HallsofIvy]

Autism has nothing to do with the ability to grasp mathematics or, indeed, any intelectual concepts. Autism involves only a person's ability to relate to other people.

 

[micromass]

Hey everybody, I couldn't think of a creative title name, but I'm in a strange quandary.
I have a great grasp for knowledge of physics and science in general. If i ever hear or see a problems that is science-specific, it comes naturally to me. However, strangely enough, my mathematical ability is relatively average. Is this something that could threaten my comprehension of physics in much much higher college level applications? Basically complex physics i understand completely, even with calculus-based applications for example. But when it comes to calculus, or math in general, i can't balance the two

No, that doesn't make you autistic. Autism is a severe disorder that prevents you from interacting with other people in a normal way. Knowledge of science has nothing to do with autism.

What you have is a great intuition about science. This is not a bad thing, but you must beware. Trusting your intuition and instinct too much could threaten a good comprehension of science. For example, there are things in physics, like quantum physics, that you cannot possibly grasp intuitively! You can only understand it with mathematics.

There are some other ways that your intuition could fail you, for example:
- say that there is a helium balloon in a moving car. The car suddenly stops, what happens to the balloon?
- say that you are in a boat on a lake, and in your boat lies a weight of 10kg. You throw the weight in the water, does the water level rise, fall or stay thesame?
- There is an airplane on a threadmill. The threadmill moves as fast as the airplane moves. Can the airplane lift off?

If you see the above three intuitively, then congratulations: you have a better intuition than most of us. Most of us will first have to do the calculations and then see why it is true. After a while you gain intuition about it, but you'll first have to calculate a lot!

So to summarize: intution is good. But don't follow it blindly! The same is true for math (in my opinion): calculations are good, but don't follow it blindly!

 

[Mentallic]

- There is an airplane on a threadmill. The threadmill moves as fast as the airplane moves. Can the airplane lift off?

Ahh could you imagine if it did! You would basically have a helicopter plane with fast spinning wheels.

 

[Mizango]

Is your name Max™? Sorry, but self diagnosis of internet autism is something that really chaps my hide. Micromass made excellent points, so I shall leave his words with you.

 

[sahil_time]

Are these the answers??
-Balloons go opposite to the drection of motion of car
-Water level stays same
-Yes it can lift off!?

 

[uart]

Are these the answers??

-Balloons go opposite to the direction of motion of car - Correct.
-Water level stays same - No, not necessarily.
-Yes it can lift off!? - Correct

 

[Mentallic]

-Balloons go opposite to the direction of motion of car - Correct.
-Water level stays same - No, not necessarily.
-Yes it can lift off!? - Correct

My intuition and physics knowledge says otherwise.

1) The balloon will continue to travel in the path the car was taking, and also stick to the ceiling, so it won't be traveling in the direction opposite the direction of the car...
2) The water level will stay exactly the same.
3) I find it highly unlikely that the plane can take off from a standing position. There are just way too many fallacies I can think of that would need to be thoroughly explained if it could take off.

 

[uart]

My intuition and physics knowledge says otherwise.

1) The balloon will continue to travel in the path the car was taking, and also stick to the ceiling, so it won't be traveling in the direction opposite the direction of the car...

Yes, anything with mass will tend to "continue to travel in the path the car was taking", but heavier objects will do so more forcefully than lighter ones. So the air in the car pushes forward (relative to the car) more so than the lighter than air balloons. The result is higher air pressure at the front and lower air pressure at the rear of the cabin with the consequence that the balloons tend to get pushed backwards. There is no doubt at all about this, I've even seen it practically demonstrated.

2) The water level will stay exactly the same.

If the density of the mass is greater than that of water then the water level will fall. Only if the density of the mass is less than or equal to that of water will the water level remain unchanged.

3) I find it highly unlikely that the plane can take off from a standing position. There are just way too many fallacies I can think of that would need to be thoroughly explained if it could take off.

The plane does not use the tires or the ground to "push" itself up to speed, it uses the air. Therefore the speed of the treadmill is largely irrelevant to the speed of the plane. The only effect of the treadmill in this case is to make the (freewheeling) tires spin a twice the rate that they would otherwise have required. This does not give rise to any great impediment to takeoff.

 

[Mentallic]

Ahh thanks, the first two make a lot of sense. I'm still not convinced with the 3rd however. Planes need an airflow around their wings in order to create the lift force required for takeoff. If the plane is on a treadmill, its wheels are at work, but it's not moving relative to the air around it so there is no force being generated that is required for takeoff.
edit: the original question said "The threadmill moves as fast as the airplane moves." which I think you missed.

 

[micromass]

I didn't believe it either, mentallic, but it's true: the plane will take off. However, it wasn't until mythbusters showed it that I believed it. See for yourself:



The point is that the plane won't be standing still. Even if the threadmill moves as fast as the threadmill. This is because the thrust that moves the airplane doesn't come from the wheels (unlike a normal car, which WILL stay still on a threadmill), but it comes from the turbine/propellor. This way, the plane can move while still on the threadmill.

Compare it with this: stand with rollerskates on a threadmill. And pull yourself forward with a rope. Even if the threadmill goes really fast, you can still pull yourself forward. The wheels will rotate very fast though...

 

[Mentallic]

I didn't believe it either, mentallic, but it's true: the plane will take off. However, it wasn't until mythbusters showed it that I believed it. See for yourself:



The point is that the plane won't be standing still. Even if the threadmill moves as fast as the threadmill. This is because the thrust that moves the airplane doesn't come from the wheels (unlike a normal car, which WILL stay still on a threadmill), but it comes from the turbine/propellor. This way, the plane can move while still on the threadmill.

Compare it with this: stand with rollerskates on a threadmill. And pull yourself forward with a rope. Even if the threadmill goes really fast, you can still pull yourself forward. The wheels will rotate very fast though...

Ahh wow, that's definitely something I didn't know about planes And for no reason other than because cars do it would I have thought that power is generated to turning the wheels of a plane.
Thanks for the clarification guys

 

[Vespa71]

No, that doesn't make you autistic. Autism is a severe disorder that prevents you from interacting with other people in a normal way. Knowledge of science has nothing to do with autism.

Well, the jury's still out..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Einstein_syndrome

 

[HallsofIvy]

The website you link to supports micromass:
"The main thesis of the book is that late talkers are often inaccurately categorized as having an autism spectrum disorder (ASD) and that a small subset of late talkers are actually highly intelligent children with common characteristics concentrated in music and/or memory and/or math."
Note the phrase "inaccurately categorized as having an autism spectrum disorder".

 

[Vespa71]

The website you link to supports micromass:
"The main thesis of the book is that late talkers are often inaccurately categorized as having an autism spectrum disorder (ASD) and that a small subset of late talkers are actually highly intelligent children with common characteristics concentrated in music and/or memory and/or math."
Note the phrase "inaccurately categorized as having an autism spectrum disorder".

I do not think threadstarter has ASD. ASD is a subset of the broader autism phenotype.

 

[guss]

Is this something that could threaten my comprehension of physics in much much higher college level applications?

Of course. Math and physics, as well a many other things in the general science/engineering field, meet and become extremely intertwined higher, or even intermediate to lower levels.

What math and physics (or other science) levels are you currently in? I may be able to give you something useful.