Dads and Daughters: Navigating Conversations about Sex and Body Image

[jackmell]

This is a story about little girls dancing in what looks like skimpy clothes. You guys interested in talking about this or is is mostly single young people in here?

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/Parenting...sparks-controversy-internet/story?id=10644648

Anyway, the subject of dads and daughters is a subject I'm interested in and write about often. What would you guys do? Suppose she's 8 and going to get real mad if you tell her no? Just leave it to mom? Do nothing? No.

Really it's hard for me to post something like this. No games.

 

[Evo]

Dressing small girls up as hookers so that the judges can see their body lines, as one mother explains. I love the "they don't understand what they're doing, so it's ok".

 

[rewebster]

Dressing small girls up as hookers so that the judges can see their body lines, as one mother explains. I love the "they don't understand what they're doing, so it's ok".

and the moms are probably thinking--"and this way they won't have to learn any sciences or math."


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/WALIARHHLII&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/WALIARHHLII&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>

 

[jackmell]

Dressing small girls up as hookers so that the judges can see their body lines, as one mother explains. I love the "they don't understand what they're doing, so it's ok".

That's the point: how to make them understand but not when she's 8. You're almost too late dad. But it's hard for you isn't it. To talk about those things with her I mean. Mom should say, "look dad, I want you to handle this. Walk up to her room, knock on the door, wait till she says 'come in', then tell her, "sweetie, I want to talk to you about something". But don't wait til' she's 8 dad. :)

Also I sympathize with Miss Teen. She was nervous. Is she growing up healthy? That's what is important in my opinion.

 

[lisab]

What bothers me is that one of the parents says, "The girls weren't meant to be viewed by millions of people." OK, I have lots of video and pix of my daughter that I wouldn't want millions of people to see...I think most parents do. Just private family stuff. But to join a contest like "World of Dance" and have an expectation of privacy is absurd.

I don't think the girls see what they're doing is sexual, but they need to be taught what the world interprets as sexual. Because, like it or not, society decides that, not the girls. I think the parents failed to teach them where the line is. The very fact that we're discussing it, means the line was crossed (or nearly crossed).

Full disclosure: when my daughter was about that age she took dance classes. At the recital they did an Arabic dance, wearing belly dance costumes over leotards. It wasn't a contest and wasn't anywhere near the skill level of the girls in the video. But while I wouldn't want a video of that to be viewed by a creep, I also wouldn't want to keep her from doing what is essentially a wholesome activity.

 

[Evo]

We are seeing more and more "age inappropriate" exploitation of young girls. Have you seen the things mother's make those little girls do in those toddler beauty pageants?

I won't be surprised to see them competing with stripper poles soon. It's ok if they don't know what it means, right? It's for the entertainment of on-looking adults, nothing perverted about that.

 

[jackmell]

Alright. I guess since it's my thread I need to watch the video. Figured I would find it disturbing and I did and George! You couldn't stop watching it! Are you kidding me? You got a daughter? And I want to know why during the interview they had to keep showing it. I felt all the argument in favor of them doing so were inappropriate. I really don't think parents understand the full implications of this. It doesn't stop when the dance is over. Yeah, it's just a dance but what do you think they do when then go back to school?
They're really sex-objects to all the boys now . . . and maybe/probably to some of the teachers. Yeah, well maybe they're sex-objects to the boys anyway but this just exacerbates the whole sex thing at a much too early age in my opinion. Yeah, their swimsuits are even more skimpy but they're not dancing in a provocative manner the entire time they're swimming! Oh, and they're gonna' be popular in school, to the boys. Nothing wrong with being popular. "Wow sally, you looked sexy in that dance" they'll say. Yeah, the 8, 9, 10 year-old boys, older one too. Girls really love that kind of attention. Just gotta' be sexy and the boys will notice me. But the boys want to have sex with you! And girls, even teens are just too immature to deal with the consequences of sex: girls let their hearts get in the way of rational thinking. It's more than just a dance and just because the girls don't understand is no argument for approving of it. I could easily say tons more but I'd have to watch the video again. Sometimes I write dialog about these things. This is how I imagine it would go. Not saying it's perfect, mostly fun but serious. Dad enters her room:

"I'm worried about you in that dance thing you're doing"

"Why?"

"Well, it's that, well, those, I mean that costume you're wearing . . . and how you guys are dancing and all."

"What's wrong with it?"

"Well it's, . . . kinda sexual."

"It is not!"

"Yes it is".

"No it's not. It's just a dance dad".

"Sweetie, it's really more than just a dance. You know how I feel about girls in the world and how they're bombarded constantly with sexual things?"

"Sure do, you've been telling me about that since I've been what four?"

"Exactly. I mean, I want you to grow up as a healthy, strong, empowered and . . .

(she interrupts)

"not get pregnant in high-school?"

"Exactly sweetie".

"We're not having sex dad".

"But it's suggestive and all the boys your age will get . . . well, think about you and sex! And you know there are some men out there that see little girls as sex objects and well, we don't want you and your friends and other little girls to be seen as sex objects because you're just little girls. I mean, sex is for big girls, . . . I mean women, grown women."

She frowns, "How grown?"

Dad thinks, "Ugh . . . 27 . . . ?"

"Twenty-seven!"

"Mom! Dad said I have to be 27 to have sex!"

"I thought you guys were talking about dancing!"

Dad says, "we are! and you're getting off the subject. Can we stay focused?"

She folds her hand, taps her foot on the ground and give an expression to say, "you're not gonna' win this one fella".

"Dad, I want to dance with my friends. Their all doing it and their parents don't mind."

"How do you know they don't mind?"

"All my friends said so."

"Well I bet their parents don't like it."

"You're just too . . . don't worry about me dad. I'll be fine ok?"

"Yes sweetheart, I worry about you. And I want you to grow up healthy."

"Well, this dance won't runin me."

"Ok, but you mind if I dont' go?"

"Yes I mind!. You never go to anything I'm in."

"That's not true!"

"Yes it is. You didn't go to my swimming that time and . . . "

"I was working. "

"Dad, I want you to be there ok?"

". . . great . . . I don't even . . . I don't . . . fine I'll be there"

"Thank you dad. I love you."

"Love you too sweetie."

Dad walks out the room thinking, "close enough."

edit: now that I think about it, this particular conversation may not be entirely appropriate for an 8 year old. 12 for sure. The point is to talk to her and to start early in whatever way you feel is age-appropriate. Good luck dad! :)

 

[D H]

They're really sex-objects to all the boys now . . . and maybe/probably to some of the teachers.

And to a boatload of sickos. A sniffer to find which IP numbers are accessing that video would probably yield a treasure trove of deviants that bear watching.

 

[BobG]

"Exactly. I mean, I want you to grow up as a healthy, strong, empowered and . . .

This is why I think it's good to get girls involved in sports when they're kids. And why I was never embarrassed when my daughter made a particularly violent tackle against her opponent in soccer. Seriously ...

(Okay, I can think of two instances that did embarrass me. I also think some referees let girls get away with too much just because they don't like to red card little girls.)

 

[D H]

I hated refereeing girls games. There is definitely a difference between boys and girls. Girls are nasty, vicious little critters who carry a grudge for a long time (even as long as a game played against the same team last year) and know how to get revenge when the referee is looking elsewhere. Walk the field after a girls game and you are likely to find hair bands and even chunks of hair littering the field.

 

[pallidin]

Girls are nasty, vicious little critters who carry a grudge for a long time...

Wow!

 

[D H]

Have you ever refereed girls sports? They are nasty and the nastiness continues off the field. I don't know how much of this is the difference between boys and girls versus the difference between the parents of boys and parents of girls. That latter difference is very real. The parents of girls are utterly blind to the fouls committed by their own sweet innocent daughter. The parents of boys are more likely to know the meanness of which their sons are capable. When I was involved in youth sports I sent a more girls parents off than parents of boys. Technically speaking, I couldn't do that. I could however stop the game indefinitely until said parents left the area.

Boys can be mean and nasty on the field, too, but usually when the game is over the game is over.

 

[lisab]

I hated refereeing girls games. There is definitely a difference between boys and girls. Girls are nasty, vicious little critters who carry a grudge for a long time (even as long as a game played against the same team last year) and know how to get revenge when the referee is looking elsewhere. Walk the field after a girls game and you are likely to find hair bands and even chunks of hair littering the field.

All sprinkled with liberal amounts of glitter .

 

[BobG]

I refereed for several years, as well.

It's rough for parents the first year or two that their daughter makes it to the higher level leagues. For the first several years, the girls all looked so cute in those shin guards. Then their daughter makes the premier league and then comes the realization that they signed their daughter up for one of the five variations of full contact football (albeit the least violent of the five).

But, there's a definite difference in attitude. When I played, there was a lot of bs back and forth until someone got annoyed with me and slipped an elbow into my solar plexus when the ref wasn't looking and I didn't get upset - usually, I deserved it, since I kind of enjoyed being a jerk. Girls seemed to do those sort of things maliciously instead of just for enjoyment.

 

[D H]

Then their daughter makes the premier league and then comes the realization that they signed their daughter up for one of the five variations of full contact football (albeit the least violent of the five).

Some parents put those girls on a competitive (but not premier-level) boys team. It saves several thousand $$ a year and avoids travel halfway across the state (or even further afield). On of the best takedowns I saw was by a girl keeper on such a team. She didn't like a not-quite cardable bump from an opposing player. Later on in the game, he came at her one-on-one. He dribbled a bit long at exactly the wrong point. She dove for the ball and got it. The natural motion would have been to pull the ball in. She instead held it out and got his feet just right so he was completely upended, landing on his back after going end-over-end. Not quite kosher, but quite legit. She didn't trip him; the ball did.

 

[leroyjenkens]

"Urban dance" has gotten so bad that they even literally mimic having sex.

 

[Huckleberry]

Is Beyonce selling sex appeal when she dresses in skimpy outfits and gyrates on stage? These young girls may not realize how people will perceive them, but if the answer to the question is 'yes', then parents should realize that their 8 year old daughter is also selling sex appeal.

Teaching a child to make their own decisions isn't the same thing as teaching them to be unaware of the world they live in.

 

[pallidin]

"Urban dance" has gotten so bad that they even literally mimic having sex.

Very true.

 

[Astronuc]

"Urban dance" has gotten so bad that they even literally mimic having sex.

I am thankful that I ignore popular culture. I didn't know there was such a term as "urban dance". I'd rather not know about it.

 

[Astronuc]

What bothers me is that one of the parents says, "The girls weren't meant to be viewed by millions of people." OK, I have lots of video and pix of my daughter that I wouldn't want millions of people to see...I think most parents do. Just private family stuff. But to join a contest like "World of Dance" and have an expectation of privacy is absurd.

I don't think the girls see what they're doing is sexual, but they need to be taught what the world interprets as sexual. Because, like it or not, society decides that, not the girls. I think the parents failed to teach them where the line is. The very fact that we're discussing it, means the line was crossed (or nearly crossed).

Full disclosure: when my daughter was about that age she took dance classes. At the recital they did an Arabic dance, wearing belly dance costumes over leotards. It wasn't a contest and wasn't anywhere near the skill level of the girls in the video. But while I wouldn't want a video of that to be viewed by a creep, I also wouldn't want to keep her from doing what is essentially a wholesome activity.

My daughter talk dance classes in order to help her develop muscle strength and coordination, while having fun. It did seem a bit too competitive for my and her taste.

Kids are supposed to have fun and enjoy themselves, not worry about competition and being number 1.

We are seeing more and more "age inappropriate" exploitation of young girls. Have you seen the things mother's make those little girls do in those toddler beauty pageants?

I won't be surprised to see them competing with stripper poles soon. It's ok if they don't know what it means, right? It's for the entertainment of on-looking adults, nothing perverted about that.

Parents who make their little girls do risque dancing for entertainment seem to have a problem.

I personally think beauty pageants are stupid, especially when imposed on children - by dysfunctional parents.

 

[D H]

Kids are supposed to have fun and enjoy themselves, not worry about competition and being number 1.

This is double so at age six. That competitive crap comes from the parents, and for the most part they are not doing it for the kids. They are doing it for themselves, and to their kids' detriment.

 

[Zantra]

My personal opininion is that whoever led this girls dance team and allowed this, needs to be in jail for 3rd degree sexual exploitation of minors. We don't know if this person is a pedophile or just dumb, but honestly, if that was my daughter of there I'd be livid. I'd probably snatch my kid off the stage in the middle of the performance, if I didn't know about this before-hand.

And quite frankly, if anyone thinks that a child this age should have advanced knowledge then I submit you don't know any good parents. Any parent actually involved in their child's lives should not have to worry about their child having full knowledge of sexual activitity at 6

Any 6 year old who knows that much about sex needs a visit from CPS, becauise either they have bad parents or they've been sexually abused.

IMHO...

 

[Monique]

Did anyone see the movie Little Miss Sunshine? There is a scene in there where the granddad is learning his young granddaughter a dance routine, in order for her to win a competition. When we finally get to see her perform the routine, it is in fact an age-inappropriate striptease act. It stirred up some dust, whether it was appropriate for the young actress to learn such a dance.

"Urban dance" has gotten so bad that they even literally mimic having sex.

MetropolisTV once made a episode on Funky Carioca, which is a hypersexual dance style from Brazil. It is an absolutely disgusting and demoralizing (at least the level to which some people take it).

 

[BobG]

Did anyone see the movie Little Miss Sunshine? There is a scene in there where the granddad is learning his young granddaughter a dance routine, in order for her to win a competition. When we finally get to see her perform the routine, it is in fact an age-inappropriate striptease act. It stirred up some dust, whether it was appropriate for the young actress to learn such a dance.

Now, that is an interesting question. It's a great movie and the scene, itself, isn't exploitive in the least, but the only real difference is the end product was more worthwhile (subjective evaluation, admittedly) than the Beyonce dancing girls.

 

[jackmell]

And quite frankly, if anyone thinks that a child this age should have advanced knowledge then I submit you don't know any good parents. Any parent actually involved in their child's lives should not have to worry about their child having full knowledge of sexual activitity at 6

Any 6 year old who knows that much about sex needs a visit from CPS, becauise either they have bad parents or they've been sexually abused.

IMHO...

I was a little worried about what I wrote in the dialog above after considering at 8 she's just in second or third grade. Perhaps 8 is too young for some things in that conversation but if she was mine I would have definitely confronted her about my concern for the "sexual" appearance of the dance but would have still allowed her to compete. Not sure boys that age even think about sex and I wouldn't want to tell her too much or traumatize her with unnecessary information. However I believe dad should start talking to her about sexual matters as young as four.

This is my gift to all the dads in here and the little girls in their lives:

http://theoneman.newsvine.com/_news/2010/02/19/3920737-messin-with-ma-junk-a-valentine

So too with this one:

http://forums.parenting.com/showthread.php?t=4168