Deriving radial velocity as observed from infinity

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The discussion focuses on deriving the radial velocity as observed from infinity, specifically referencing Wheeler and Taylor's 'Exploring Black Holes.' The key equation for energy in Schwarzschild geometry is presented, leading to the need for deriving dr/dt for a stone falling from rest at a great distance. Participants seek clarification on the derivation process between specific equations, particularly how to manipulate the terms involving dt² and dr². The conversation emphasizes the importance of rearranging terms correctly to achieve the desired expression for radial velocity. Overall, the thread highlights the complexities involved in understanding the mathematical relationships in Schwarzschild geometry.
stevebd1
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In Wheeler and Taylor's 'Exploring Black Holes', on pages 3-12 and 3-13, the bookkeeper measure of radial velocity (i.e. radial velocity as measured from infinity) is derived. Basically the equation for 'Energy in Schwarzschild geometry' is established-

\frac{E}{m}=\left(1-\frac{2M}{r}\right)\frac{dt}{d\tau}=1

The book states-

'From the energy equation and the Schwarzschild metric, we can find an expression for dr/dt, the rate of the change of the r-coordinate with far-away time t for a stone starting from rest at a very great distance. To obtain this derivative, square terms on either side of the right-hand equality, multiply through by d\tau^2, and equate it to the Schwarzschild metric equation for d\tau^2 in the case of radial fall (d\phi=0):

\left(1-\frac{2M}{r}\right)^2dt^2=d\tau^2=\left(1-\frac{2M}{r}\right)dt^2-\frac{dr^2}{\left(1-\frac{2M}{r}\right)}[/itex]<br /> <br /> Divide through by dt^2, solve for dr/dt, and take the square root to obtain<br /> <br /> \frac{dr}{dt}=-\left(1-\frac{2M}{r}\right)\left(\frac{2M}{r}\right)^{1/2}I&#039;d appreciate if someone could show the process of derivation between the second and third equation.
 
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stevebd1 said:
\left(1-\frac{2M}{r}\right)^2dt^2=d\tau^2=\left(1-\frac{2M}{r}\right)dt^2-\frac{dr^2}{\left(1-\frac{2M}{r}\right)}[/itex]<br /> <br /> Divide through by dt^2, solve for dr/dt, and take the square root to obtain<br /> <br /> \frac{dr}{dt}=-\left(1-\frac{2M}{r}\right)\left(\frac{2M}{r}\right)^{1/2}<br /> <br /> <br /> I&#039;d appreciate if someone could show the process of derivation between the second and third equation.
<br /> <br /> Hi stevebd1! <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":smile:" title="Smile :smile:" data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":smile:" /><br /> <br /> Ignore the dtau<sup>2</sup> in the middle, and the coefficient of dt<sup>2</sup> becomes (1 - 2M/r)(1 - 2M/r - 1) <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":wink:" title="Wink :wink:" data-smilie="2"data-shortname=":wink:" />
 
Hi tiny-tim

Thanks for the response. I'm probably missing something elementary here but could you shed some light on how you arrived at that coefficient for dt2?
 
stevebd1 said:
Hi tiny-tim

Thanks for the response. I'm probably missing something elementary here but could you shed some light on how you arrived at that coefficient for dt2?

Yup … in
stevebd1 said:
\left(1-\frac{2M}{r}\right)^2dt^2=\,\cdots\,=\left(1-\frac{2M}{r}\right)dt^2-\frac{dr^2}{\left(1-\frac{2M}{r}\right)}

rearrange to \left[\left(1-\frac{2M}{r}\right)^2\ -\ \left(1-\frac{2M}{r}\right)\right]dt^2\ =\ -\frac{dr^2}{\left(1-\frac{2M}{r}\right)}

which is \left[\left(1-\frac{2M}{r}\right)\left(1-\frac{2M}{r}\right\ -\ 1)\right]dt^2\ =\ -\frac{dr^2}{\left(1-\frac{2M}{r}\right)} :smile:
 
UC Berkely, December 16, 2025 https://news.berkeley.edu/2025/12/16/whats-powering-these-mysterious-bright-blue-cosmic-flashes-astronomers-find-a-clue/ AT 2024wpp, a luminous fast blue optical transient, or LFBOT, is the bright blue spot at the upper right edge of its host galaxy, which is 1.1 billion light-years from Earth in (or near) a galaxy far, far away. Such objects are very bright (obiously) and very energetic. The article indicates that AT 2024wpp had a peak luminosity of 2-4 x...

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