Did hunter gatherers work less or more than modern humans?

[Evo]

I realize that they studied modern hunter-gatherer societies, but I don't agree that it isn't relevant to the topic at hand. One of the five main questions they address in the paper is:

2) How robust is the occurrence of a post-reproductive life span, and how likely is it that older adults were alive and available in human populations?

They're studying several modern day societies, yes, but I see little reason to believe that their findings don't apply to early humans. The authors of the paper certainly think they do.
That's also my understanding. Agriculture may allow you to produce more food with fewer people, but in general you end up with a less diverse food supply, especially among the lower social classes, leading to malnourishment.

The reason I disagree with the finding of older humans in ancient times is how rare it is to find older human remains in ancient times. I can look them up, but it would take awhile and right now I have other things I am doing.

There are many reasons not to find older remains though, tuberculosis from smoke was very common, warfare was very common. Even removing the infant and early childhood deaths, you just did not find that many "old people" in ancient times. They died from abscessed teeth, infections that we could easily cure with an antibiotic. To say that a majority of people lived to an old age goes against everything I've ever read. Where is the proof? Where are the remains? I assume they have hundreds and hundreds of skeletons of ANCIENT people from thousands of years ago aged around 70, at least 2-3 times the number of people found of that same era in that same region.

 

[Drakkith]

The reason I disagree with the finding of older humans in ancient times is how rare it is to find older human remains in ancient times.

What time period do you mean by "ancient"?

 

[Evo]

What time period do you mean by "ancient"?

I'd say 5-10k years ago at least, farther back is really hard to find evidence.

If we were talking about modern day hunter gatherers, no problem.

 

[Drakkith]

I'd say 5-10k years ago at least.

If we were talking about modern day hunter gatherers, no problem.

The paper observed modern day hunter gatherers, but they are using those observations to make predictions about ancient hunter-gatherer societies.

To say that a majority of people lived to an old age goes against everything I've ever read.

That's fair. I guess I really can't say much on this other than what I've read in the paper, as this isn't an area I know much in (not that I really have any ).

 

[Ygggdrasil]

From systematic studies of hominid fossils:

Although we expected to find increases in longevity over time, we were unprepared for how striking our results would turn out to be. We observed a small trend of increased longevity over time among all samples, but the difference between earlier humans and the modern humans of the Upper Paleolithic was a dramatic fivefold increase in the OY ratio. Thus, for every 10 young adult Neandertals who died between the ages of 15 and 30, there were only four older adults who survived past age 30; in contrast, for every 10 young adults in the European Upper Paleolithic death distribution, there were 20 potential grandparents. Wondering whether the higher numbers of burials at Upper Paleolithic sites might account for the high number of older adults in that sample, we reanalyzed our Upper Paleolithic sample, using only those remains that had not been buried. But we got similar results. The conclusion was inescapable: adult survivorship soared very late in human evolution.

http://www.nature.com/scientificamerican/journal/v305/n2/full/scientificamerican0811-44.html (bolding mine)

See also: http://www.pnas.org/content/101/30/10895.full

Notably, the Upper Paleolithic (beginning ~ 50,000 years ago) predates the origin of agriculture (~10,000 years ago in the Neolithic period), so stone-age hunter-gatherers had 20 potential grandparents for every 10 young adults in their society.

 

[Evo]

From systematic studies of hominid fossils:

http://www.nature.com/scientificamerican/journal/v305/n2/full/scientificamerican0811-44.html (bolding mine)

See also: http://www.pnas.org/content/101/30/10895.full

Notably, the Upper Paleolithic (beginning ~ 50,000 years ago) predates the origin of agriculture (~10,000 years ago in the Neolithic period), so stone-age hunter-gatherers had 20 potential grandparents for every 10 young adults in their society.

I don't have access to the Scientific American article, so thank you for the PNAS paper. From what I am reading they use age 30 for an average age for a grandmother, but I couldn't quite make out how much longer life expectancy in the studied groups were. I know it's hard to tell, but did they have enough evidence to make a guess to what age the majority appeared to have survived? And please forgive me if I completely missed it, another sleepless night. Thanks Ygggdrasil

 

[Sereninha]

Subsistence farmers do/did all that on top of hoeing the field in driving sleet at dawn.

 

[Sereninha]

It is important to remember that modern work does not JUST include the 8 hours bought by a job. People have to commute, cook, clean, raise children, etc..

Subsistence farmers did/do all this as well as hoeing the fields in the driving sleet, or baking sun.

 

[Sereninha]

The original Q was about work, work and longevity do not have a direct linkage, this discussion seems to have drifted into longevity, OK there is easier evidence there. Hunter gatherers were more vulnerable to individual "events", though less to infectious disease. Farmers have more levels of security, where do herders fit in? They have some elements of both, and in my anecdotal experience do not actually graft as hard as farmers.
Dogs have made a massive difference I guess to both hunters and herders in terms of workload and personal security. Herding was the link in many cases between hunting and farming, less so in PNG. Perhaps this is a factor in the sudden uptick in paleolithic survival into old age. Did siblings take active part in childcare before dogs set the example? Was this a pattern for care of the elderly? Did the cultural resource of the old become more worth protecting as there was more culture to store?

 

[Sue Rich]

They worked less, but their work was generally harder. The men hunted. They did not plant because they were 'hunter-gatherers'. While the men hunted which wouldn't have been every day, the women gathered the berries, nuts, fruit, whatever was in season. But the work wasn't over for either after the men skinned their kill. Both would have had a hand in turning the skins into wearable garments.