Did US Marines commit a massacre?

[Rach3]

This is beyond incredible, I'll refrain from adding any commentary.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/05/26/world/middleeast/26haditha.html

Military to Report Marines Killed Iraqi Civilians

WASHINGTON, May 25 — A military investigation into the deaths of two dozen Iraqis last November is expected to find that a small number of marines in western Iraq carried out extensive, unprovoked killings of civilians, Congressional, military and Pentagon officials said Thursday.

http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1174649-1,00.html

Collateral Damage or Civilian Massacre in Haditha?

...But the details of what happened that morning in Haditha are more disturbing, disputed and horrific than the military initially reported. According to eyewitnesses and local officials interviewed over the past 10 weeks, the civilians who died in Haditha on Nov. 19 were killed not by a roadside bomb but by the Marines themselves, who went on a rampage in the village after the attack, killing 15 unarmed Iraqis in their homes, including seven women and three children.

 

[scott1]

If they did I hope they get the death penelaty.

 

[Rach3]

scott - Both articles above state that they will likely be charged with capital murder.

More details from Rep. John Murtha (D-Pennsylvania):

Lawmaker says Marines killed Iraqis 'in cold blood

Rep. John Murtha, D-Pennsylvania, told reporters Wednesday that he got his information from U.S. commanders, who said the investigation will show that the Marines deliberately killed the civilians.

..."There was no firefight. There was no IED that killed these innocent people. Our troops overreacted because of the pressure on them, and they killed innocent civilians in cold blood," Murtha said. (Watch Murtha level accusations against the Marines -- 1:58)

..."They actually went into the houses and killed women and children," the congressman said.

http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/05/18/murtha.marines/index.html

Pentagon sources: Civilians likely killed without provocation

Photos from scene said to be 'inconsistent' with Marine account

...An Iraqi human rights group, Hammurabi Human Rights Association, caught the scene on video, which was obtained by Time magazine. A criminal investigation ensued. Time Warner is the parent company of Time magazine and CNN.

http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/05/26/marines.haditha/index.html

 

[Bilal]

Hmmm


We saw already the pictures of those poor women and kids a few months ago! I am surprised that you do not know until now that the American did many massacres in Iraq!

Aljazeera TV reported that one of American soldiers was killed in explosive device … so the other soldiers attacked the houses and murdered 23 kids and women in cold blood. The pictures of the victims spread everywhere, and they were documented by the international human right organizations.

As usual, the American army claimed that those kids and women were killed with the soldiers as a result of the explosive device, while we can easily distinguish from the pictures that they were shot by guns.

This massacre became exceptional because it was well-documented, while many other massacres are denied and ignored by the American leaders.

http://www.aljazeera.com/me.asp?service_ID=11407

Haditha victims were shot at close range by the U.S. occupying troops, Haditha residents asserted in numerous interviews with reporters representing various news agencies, in contrast to claims by many of the U.S. Marines who said in initial reports that one Marine, Miguel Terrazas, 20, and 15 civilians were killed “from the blast of a roadside bomb.”

According to NBC news reports, photos taken immediately after the incident “show many of the victims were shot at close range, in the head and chest, execution-style. One photo shows a mother and young child bent over on the floor as if in prayer, shot dead.”

Also Time said it obtained a copy of a video, shot by a Haditha journalism student and confirming the residents’ accounts. The footage includes scenes at the local morgue and at the homes of the Iraqi civilians killed by the Marines.

 

[Manchot]

This massacre became exceptional because it was well-documented, while many other massacres are denied and ignored by the American leaders.

Uh, I think you answered your own musing here. The reason that other claims of massacres are ignored is because they aren't well-documented. Face it, many Iraqis would love nothing better than to see us leave, and would say or do anything to hasten that. I'm not saying that massacres don't happen, and I'm not condoning the actions of the Marines or the president. (I've always been against the war.) However, just because someone claims that a massacre occurred, it doesn't mean that you should believe it. Someone's word isn't good enough.

On a side note, let's see if the usual war apologists reply.

 

[loseyourname]

Who in the hell would engage in apologetics regarding the unprovoked killing of unarmed civilians? It's one thing to defend the war, but no one here is going to defend war crimes.

 

[Art]

I'm surprised people are surprised by this unless it's because in this instance the offenders might actually be charged with something although I doubt it. There have been other well documented massacres in the past and nobody has ever been charged.

Iraq: The Wedding Party Massacre

By Neil Mackay

THE bombing started at 3am on Wednesday. The villagers from the tiny desert community of Makr al-Deeb were fast asleep, exhausted after a day spent celebrating a wedding. By the time the bombing had stopped and the advancing GIs had finished marauding and shooting their way through the remains of the village, the Americans had killed at least 42 innocent people.
Among the dead were 27 members of the Rakat family who were celebrating a double family wedding. Many of their guests died as well, as did the band of musicians who played throughout the wedding and one of Iraq’s most popular singers, Hussein al-Ali from Ramadi.

One of the few people to live through the night was Haleema Shihab, the sister-in-law of the groom. She described to reporters from her hospital bed how she was sleeping in bed with her husband and children in the Rakat family villa when the bombs started to fall.

“We went out of the house and American soldiers started to shoot at us,” she said. “They were shooting low on the ground and targeting us one by one.”

Picking up her youngest child in her arms, with two of her sons running at her side, she was hit by shrapnel from a shell that landed nearby fracturing her legs.

Her two boys were dead on the ground beside her and as she lay next to them she was wounded again when another round hit her in the arm. One of her children had been decapitated.

“I fell into the mud and an American soldier came and kicked me,” she said. “I pretended to be dead so he wouldn’t kill me. My youngest child was alive next to me.”

http://www.sundayherald.com/42229

Iraq: US mosque massacre deepens occupation’s crisis
By Bill Van Auken
28 March 2006
Use this version to print | Send this link by email | Email the author

The massacre of as many as 40 unarmed worshipers in a northeast Baghdad mosque Sunday has triggered a political crisis that threatens to accelerate Iraq’s descent into civil war while sharply intensifying the hatred of millions of Iraqis for the three-year-old US occupation of their country.

Reuters news agency Monday cited Iraq’s security minister accusing “US and Iraqi forces of killing 37 unarmed civilians in the mosque after tying them up.” Other police sources said that the victims numbered around 20.

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2006/mar2006/iraq-m28.shtml

US military massacres dozens in wake of Iraq referendum
By James Cogan
18 October 2005
Use this version to print | Send this link by email | Email the author

In the space of a few hours on Sunday, less than a day after voting finished on the draft constitution in Iraq, the US military used laser-guided bombs and helicopter gunships to massacre as many as 70 people in two incidents in the predominantly Sunni Arab city of Ramadi.

The killings expose the utterly cynical character of the Bush administration’s propaganda that the October 15 referendum marked a genuine step toward democracy and sovereignty. Iraq is a conquered country, where US occupation troops are using the most ruthless methods to intimidate any opposition by the Iraqi people and force them into accepting neo-colonial American rule.

In the first incident, at least 25 people were blown to pieces when an F-15 dropped a bomb on a crowd that was gathered around the wreckage of an American humvee. It had been destroyed on Saturday by an insurgent roadside bomb, killing five marines and two soldiers of the Iraqi government armed forces and taking the total of US fatalities in Iraq to 1,976.

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2005/oct2005/iraq-o18.shtml

British Papers Focus on Alleged U.S. 'Massacres' in Iraq

By E&P Staff

Published: March 26, 2006 11:45 AM ET

NEW YORK Two leading British newspapers carried new accounts and details on alleged “massacres” of civilians in Iraq in the past four months. Except for an AP article and a Knight Ridder account published by some American papers last week the incidents have gained little exposure in the U.S. press.
<snip>
The March 15 incident took place in the village of Abu Sifa. According to Iraqi police, 11 bodies were pulled from the wreckage of a house, among them four women and five children aged between six months and five years. An official police report obtained by Knight Ridder said: “The American forces gathered the family members in one room and executed 11 people.”

http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1002236470

Friday, May 23rd, 2003
“Afghan Massacre: The Convoy of Death” Broadcast for the First Time Ever in the US: Eyewitnesses Testify that US Troops Were Complicit in the Massacre of up to 3,000 Taliban Prisoners During the Afghan War

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. The film has been broadcast on national television in countries all over the world and has been screened by the European parliament. Human rights lawyers are calling for investigation into whether U.S. forces are guilty of war crimes. But no U.S. media outlet has broadcast the film.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Today, on Democracy Now!, the U.S. broadcast premiere of a documentary film called “Afghan Massacre: The Convoy of Death.”

The film provides eyewitness testimony that U.S. troops were complicit in the massacre of thousands of Taliban prisoners during the Afghan War.

It tells the story of thousands of prisoners who surrendered to the US military’s Afghan allies after the siege of Kunduz. According to eyewitnesses, some three thousand of the prisoners were forced into sealed containers and loaded onto trucks for transport to Sheberghan prison. Eyewitnesses say when the prisoners began shouting for air, U.S.-allied Afghan soldiers fired directly into the truck, killing many of them. The rest suffered through an appalling road trip lasting up to four days, so thirsty they clawed at the skin of their fellow prisoners as they licked perspiration and even drank blood from open wounds.

Witnesses say that when the trucks arrived and soldiers opened the containers, most of the people inside were dead. They also say US Special Forces re-directed the containers carrying the living and dead into the desert and stood by as survivors were shot and buried. Now, up to three thousand bodies lie buried in a mass grave.

The film has sent shockwaves around the world. It has been broadcast on national television in Britain, Germany, Italy and Australia. It has been screened by the European parliament. It has outraged human rights groups and international human rights lawyers. They are calling for investigation into whether U.S. Special Forces are guilty of war crimes.

But most Americans have never heard of the film. That’s because not one corporate media outlet in the U.S. will touch it. It has never before been broadcast in this country.

http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=03/05/23/1637201&mode=thread&tid=25


These represent just a few of many well documented massacres for which nobody has ever been charged.

 

[Gokul43201]

Just watched "The Afghan Massacre" documentry from the Democracy Now link. Why did I never hear/read any of this from the mainstream media ? It's a shocking story, and tragic that it's been cleanly swept under the rug.

 

[Bilal]

Aljazeera:

A new massacre in Afghanistan...

The American soldiers murdered today 30 Afghani civilians after a car accident …

 

[Gokul43201]

Aljazeera:

A new massacre in Afghanistan...

The American soldiers murdered today 30 Afghani civilians after a car accident …

That's not acceptable. At the very least, include the link to the source article.

 

[Bilal]

That's not acceptable. At the very least, include the link to the source article.

It is Arabic news:


http://www.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/A7421A6C-E305-43BF-9A86-B933C58AA352.htm

The reporter of Aljazeera is in Kabul and he updates the news quickly.

Here is BBC:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/5026350.stm

 

[Gokul43201]

From the BBC article linked above.

The military also said at least one person had been killed and six injured in the early morning accident, although local police put the figure at three dead and 16 injured.

This is from the incident during the traffic accident. From other news reports, it seems there were at least 3 or 4 civilians shot dead by US soldiers during this event. Most of the people were described as hurling stones at the military transport immediately following the accident..

The number of dead and wounded from the rioting is also confused, with some reports putting the death toll at up to 20 with more than 100 injured.

BBC says 20 is a high estimate. And this is from subsequent, widespread rioting and destruction of property. This was not unprovoked shooting by American soldiers. And who knows how many of those 20-or-less people were killed merely by the stampede and other rioters. And from other news articles I've read, the only killings during the riots that were clearly identified, were attributed to Afghani forces, not American soldiers.

eg : From Middle East Times
http://www.metimes.com/articles/normal.php?StoryID=20060529-073423-1748r

Mohammad Shoib, an eyewitness, said that he had seen Afghan soldiers shoot dead two rioters trying to break through a police cordon and move into an area that includes the presidential palace and UN offices.

Troops apparently opened fire into the air to stop the demonstrators but later shot into the crowd, he said. A kindergarten near the offices of aid agency Care International was set ablaze along with a restaurant in the city, witnesses said, while a pall of smoke hung over the city.

...

The unrest erupted after US troops shot dead at least four people when they opened fire on a crowd of Afghans after a traffic accident with a US military vehicle.

An angry mob then torched a police station and vehicles in protest, prompting Afghan police to start shooting. Local media put the number of dead at between 20 and 30 but this could not be immediately confirmed.

An intelligence officer who did not want to be identified said that initial reports were that seven people had been killed in the shootout with the US soldiers and nine wounded.

 

[Schrodinger's Dog]

Who in the hell would engage in apologetics regarding the unprovoked killing of unarmed civilians? It's one thing to defend the war, but no one here is going to defend war crimes.

I know someone who would, whilst he does not condone these acts(the ones in the OP) he says that the action taken was a simple sweep of an area potentially harbouring "terrorists" and that this sort of thing can happen in that situation(the old colateral damage BS) Mind you he is in the military himself and a staunch Republican, still thinks George Bush is doing a good job and will not here a word said against his country, ever, there's no arguing with some people though, he won't condemn it but makes excuses instead.

I agree it is a traversty that jar heads with little common sense and a gung ho mentality are allowed to operate in Iraq, these are innocent human beings your gunning down, sheez! The marines reputation has been severely sullied by this, I wonder what there own units views of this atrocity is back in the US?

I have been reading reports that the US troops really have no empathy with the people there fighting for and against, no real idea of their culture or there mentalities, I wonder if this could attribute to the above situations, I know of an SAS soldier who left the military because the US troops were doing anything but working to win the hearts and minds of the Iraqis and had little respect for the Iraqi people, I'm beginning to take this even more seriously than I did before.

 

[arildno]

Such events are not "incredible" happenings; they are the predictable results of the systematic brain-wash the Bush administration has foisted upon their military personell through the last years.

May I say My Lai?

For those war-mongers who don't understand the mechanisms behind this, it suffices to point to the selection mechanism of the operatives (marines):

1. Persons who show some moral qualms about what they've heard, are not chosen for missions.

2. Persons of the bully-mentality who profess their patriotism are chosen for such missions.

You get the Marines you actually pick out.

 

[Bladibla]

From what I've heard from the members above, I don't think we are answering in the appropriate manner. To quote:

Much of the area around Haditha is controlled by Sunni Arab insurgents who have made the city one of the deadliest in Iraq for American troops. On Aug. 1, three months before the massacre, insurgents ambushed and killed six Marine snipers moving through Haditha on foot. Insurgents released a video after the ambush that appeared to show the attack, and the mangled and burned body of a dead serviceman. Then, two days later, 14 marines were killed when their armored vehicle was destroyed by a roadside bomb near the southern edge of the city.

Based on this, I don't find it unbelieveable at all that this event happened. Tensions are running high with the Americans knowing their lives are on the lines. That is not to say it is right to kill civilians, if the allegations are true There is no solid evidence to suggest the american troops done this, and yet a lot of the people replying already have their blood pressure rising.

May I say My Lai?

No you may not, as long as there is no solid evidence to suggest the methodical, intentional killings of the iraqi civilians.

 

[edward]

No you may not, as long as there is no solid evidence to suggest the methodical, intentional killings of the iraqi civilians.

Why not, the comparison with MY Lai is already all over the internet. There is much evedence that it happened. The only things left for the military is to do is to find someone to blame. And then find another someone to blame for the coverup.

The two situations are differen't however.

The incident in Haditha was not a planned out methodical, intentional killing of civialians. It was a heat of the moment rage. My Lai was the pre planned actions of soldiers who were ordered to destroy a village supposedly empty of everyone except Viet Cong.

 

[Art]

From what I've heard from the members above, I don't think we are answering in the appropriate manner. To quote:



Based on this, I don't find it unbelieveable at all that this event happened. Tensions are running high with the Americans knowing their lives are on the lines. That is not to say it is right to kill civilians, if the allegations are true There is no solid evidence to suggest the american troops done this, and yet a lot of the people replying already have their blood pressure rising.

Just to clarify, are you even attempting to suggest that 'tensions running high' justifiies the murder of civilians??

No you may not, as long as there is no solid evidence to suggest the methodical, intentional killings of the iraqi civilians.

There is plenty of solid evidence. Pehaps you are unaware of it.

Fact: The marines involved initially claimed the civilians were killed by the IED which killed one of their members.

Fact: This was a lie as evidenced by the bulletholes in the bodies.

Fact: The marines then claimed the dead civilians were killed in an exchange of fire with insurgents firing from houses.

Fact: This too was a lie. Forensics showed no bullet holes on the outside of the houses as one would expect in a fire fight.

Fact: Most of the dead were women and children some as young as 1 year old.

Fact: An Iraqi journalism student took video tape of the dead in their houses and at the hospital which was aired in europe. But for this the marines would have gotten away with it with the help of their superiors who are also now under investigation for trying to cover up the massacre.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/05/26/AR2006052602069.html

 

[Bladibla]

Just to clarify, are you even attempting to suggest that 'tensions running high' justifiies the murder of civilians??


There is plenty of solid evidence. Pehaps you are unaware of it.

Fact: The marines involved initially claimed the civilians were killed by the IED which killed one of their members.

Fact: This was a lie as evidenced by the bulletholes in the bodies.

Fact: The marines then claimed the dead civilians were killed in an exchange of fire with insurgents firing from houses.

Fact: This too was a lie. Forensics showed no bullet holes on the outside of the houses as one would expect in a fire fight.

Fact: Most of the dead were women and children some as young as 1 year old.

Fact: An Iraqi journalism student took video tape of the dead in their houses and at the hospital which was aired in europe. But for this the marines would have gotten away with it with the help of their superiors who are also now under investigation for trying to cover up the massacre.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/05/26/AR2006052602069.html

No, I am suggesting that the Marines could have overreacted due to the tensions running high on them, and killed without murderous intent to civilians.

As for the facts, Fair enough, I didn't know about them.

 

[Manchot]

No, I am suggesting that the Marines could have overreacted due to the tensions running high on them, and killed without murderous intent to civilians.

As for the facts, Fair enough, I didn't know about them.

The soldiers who murdered the civilians in My Lai were basically told that everyone in the village was a Viet Cong. They didn't have a murderous intent, but this didn't stop them from killing the women and children of the village. They were probably even more on edge than the Marines in Iraq were. Nonetheless, second degree murder is still murder, so the comparison can and should be made.

 

[Rach3]

Are you sure it's 2nd degree murder? The OP articles state clearly that capital punishment will be an option - is that just because military law is different?

 

[Schrodinger's Cat]

Yes, it happened. It's not like it has never happened before. There is an investigation going on right now concerning the incident and the possible cover-up.

 

[Echo 6 Sierra]

Regardless of how any of you feel or what you think about this subject the fact of the matter is there are Rules of Engagement that EVERYONE MUST FOLLOW! Simply put, if what is said to have happened actually happened, I wholeheartedly recommend capital punishment for those involved. There was a moral responsibility for any single person there to stand fast. They probably would have been killed along with the rest of the victims and set up as the "reason for the greasin'" but they still had the obligation.

On the other hand, if I was in their boots and saw a five year old child walking towards me with a grenade in their hand...dead kid.

 

[Tarheel]

They were probably even more on edge than the Marines in Iraq were.

I would argue that point.
In Viet Nam many soldiers could at least look to the end of their tour.
46 more days and their going home.

With the political heat following this debacle and the inability to re-instate the draft these soldiers are on their 2nd and 3rd tours (involuntarily)

The amount of stress they are under on a daily basis will, sadly, produce these kind of situations.

 

[Astronuc]

At the moment it is still an "alleged" massacre. The even is still under investigation. If proven true, it will shame the Marines. If true, I would not be surprised - such things happen in war - and this is one reason why I oppose war.

To the credit of the Corps, I think they are going about the investigation the right way.

After Haditha: What Makes Top Marines Worry
http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1199792,00.html

Iraq Launches Probe Into Alleged Massacre (AOL)
U.S. troops in Iraq to get ethics training (AP)
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060601/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq_haditha

BAGHDAD, Iraq (June 1) - The U.S. military ordered coalition troops in Iraq on Thursday to undergo special training in ethics and "the values that separate us from our enemies" in the wake of allegations that Marines killed two dozen unarmed civilians in Haditha.

The order came as Iraq's government launched its own investigation of the deaths last November in the western town as well as other incidents involving U.S. troops. Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki called the killings "a horrible crime," his strongest public comments on the incident since his government was sworn in May 20.

"This is a phenomenon that has become common among many of the multinational forces," al-Maliki said. "No respect for citizens, smashing civilian cars and killing on a suspicion or a hunch. It's unacceptable."

Al-Maliki's remarks appeared to lend credibility to complaints by Iraqis of what they see as U.S. troops' cultural insensitivity and disregard for Iraqi lives. To many Iraqis, the soldiers are occupiers seeking to control the country's oil wealth.

The Americans, on the other hand, are under intense pressure, isolated from Iraqis by cultural and language barriers and battling insurgents who easily blend into the civilian population. Some of the troops are in Iraq on their third combat tour since the U.S. invasion three years ago.

 

[Art]

Another 'alleged' massacre of civilians and subsequent cover-up by US forces is supported by video evidence.

New 'Iraq massacre' tape emerges

The pictures came from a hardline Sunni group
The BBC has uncovered new video evidence that US forces may have been responsible for the deliberate killing of 11 innocent Iraqi civilians.
The video appears to challenge the US military's account of events that took place in the town of Ishaqi in March.
<snip>
It has been cross-checked with other images taken at the time of events and is believed to be genuine, the BBC's Ian Pannell in Baghdad says.

These alleged incidents and subsequent cover-ups have been exposed only because there were Iraqi civilians on hand with video equipment. One wonders how many more of the accusations of civilians being deliberately murdered by US forces in Iraq are true but without video evidence to counter the 'official' reports the military continues to cover them up.

BTW For those who asked in an earlier thread if people really believed that US troops would deliberately target civilians it seems the answer is an unequivocal yes.

 

[Art]

To the credit of the Corps, I think they are going about the investigation the right way.

Only after Time magazine exposed their lies. Military intelligence knew within hours that the story provided by the troops involved was a lie as attested to by the marines sent into photograph the bodies yet they still issued the lie as their official report and did no investigation until forced to by the Time expose.

 

[Gokul43201]

To the credit of the Corps, I think they are going about the investigation the right way.

Would there even have been an investigation if the story didn't make the media? Did the investigation begin before the Time article? How often do we hear about any branch investigating abuses by their members when there is no public scandal that breaks out first?

Edit : Art's post wasn't up when I wrote this. Looks like we shared the same reaction.

 

[J77]

They had an interesting interview about this with the British commander during the first Gulf war on BBC R5 this morning.

He conceded that this kind of thing is likely to happen all the time during a war.

However, he also made a valid point about the US having a shoot anything that moves type of mentality. He gave an example of being in Iraq for 6 weeks and his unit having not taken a single shot, whilst a similar US unit were killing people every day.

He also said that this, coupled with the fact that if one of your unit gets killed, you probably know the village in which the killer is hiding can provoke angry reactions...

I also wonder what the correlation between shots fired and shots received, ie. how many of your troops are killed, is? but this is another thread...

 

[Astronuc]

In response to Art's and Gokul's posts, I too am disturbed by the fact that this event happened in November, and we are only now seeing widely reported 7 months later. Why not in December?

In Fallujah, Marine snipers apparently killed anyone who went into the open. IIRC, some 600 civilians were killed.

I am thoroughly disgusted by these actions, but not surprised. It seems to be a hallmark of the Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld coalition - it is pure evil!

-------------------------------------------------------------------
Iraq Prime Minister Blasts Troop Conduct
'No Respect for Citizens ... It's Unacceptable'
By HAMZA HENDAWI, AP

BAGHDAD, Iraq (June 2) - Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki upbraided the U.S. military over allegations that Marines killed two dozen unarmed civilians in Haditha, calling the killings "a horrible crime" in his strongest public comments on the subject since his government was sworn in last month.

The U.S. military ordered coalition troops in Iraq on Thursday to undergo special training in ethics and "the values that separate us from our enemies" in the wake of the Haditha allegations.

The order came as Iraq's government began its own investigation of the deaths last November in the western town as well as other incidents involving U.S. troops.

Al-Maliki said the list of human rights breaches by coalition forces in Iraq was long.

"This is a phenomenon that has become common among many of the multinational forces," the prime minister said. "No respect for citizens, smashing civilian cars and killing on a suspicion or a hunch. It's unacceptable."

Al-Maliki's remarks bolstered Iraqi complaints that U.S. troops are insensitive to their culture and show disregard for their lives. To many Iraqis, the soldiers are occupiers seeking to control the country's oil wealth.

The Americans, on the other hand, are under intense pressure, isolated from Iraqis by cultural and language barriers and battling insurgents who easily blend into the civilian population. Some of the troops are in Iraq on their third combat tour since the U.S. invasion three years ago.

 

[Gokul43201]

In related news, the Abu Ghraib dog handler is found guilty on two counts of abuse and dereliction. His penalty - 90 days hard labor, and a demotion, but no jail time. His defense - obeying orders from higher ups.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/5041946.stm

 

[arildno]

I am thoroughly disgusted by these actions, but not surprised. It seems to be a hallmark of the Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld coalition - it is pure evil!

Ditto, but isn't it the propaganda of political demonization (and dehumanization) of one's enemies that in some sense is ultimately to "blame", i.e, the political brainwash of otherwise upstanding members of the body politic?

Nobody is born to commit acts of pure evil, but ANYONE may easily do so if he has a conviction he's fighting demons, rather than humans..

 

[BobG]

In related news, the Abu Ghraib dog handler is found guilty on two counts of abuse and dereliction. His penalty - 90 days hard labor, and a demotion, but no jail time. His defense - obeying orders from higher ups.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/5041946.stm

He got off lighter than the other dog handler involved. The other dog handler got 6 months in jail.

The next trial will be the interesting one. http://www.tiscali.co.uk/news/newsw...my-colonel-charged-in-abu-ghraib-scandal.html) Most (the ones not directly involved in the abuses) accepted the equivalent of a plea bargain to avoid having a court martial conviction on their record.

 

[Kalimaa23]

I think that it is the sad result of a poorly thought out foreign policy. Marines, like most armed forces, are designed for one thing : to operate in a combat situation and to dispatch the enemy forces. Note that this is NOT a good way of behaving in a confusing civilian situation like Iraq. When you deploy military personnel in a situation like this, things like this will happen. Sad but true. This is why military force should be used sparingly, something some US policy makers do not seem to realize.

 

[Art]

The Pentagon says other alleged massacres by US forces are also under investigation. This issue of some US forces murdering unarmed civilians has the potential to be even more damaging to the US image around the world than the Abu Ghraib torture expose.

The US is braced for further criticism of the behaviour of its personnel with military spokesmen announcing that three or four other probes into cases of US troops killing Iraqi citizens are ongoing.

In one of these, prosecutors are expected to charge seven Marines and a Navy corpsman with murder.

The eight men are being held at Camp Pendleton, California, over the killing of a man in Hamandiya on April 26. There are allegations of a subsequent attempt to make the dead man look like an insurgent by placing an AK-47 rifle near his body.

Meanwhile, further details were emerging of another incident in Ishaqi, north of Baghdad in March. US officials said at the time that a militant, two women and a child died when US troops became involved in a firefight after a tip-off that an al-Qaeda supporter was visiting a house in the town.

The BBC has obtained video which appears to contradict this. The footage instead appears to back an Iraqi police report that US troops rounded up and shot 11 people - including four women and five children - in the head.

Mr al-Maliki - whose government is dependant on coalition troops to tackle sectarian feuding among southern Shias and a relentless Sunni-led insurgency in the west - said that reports of such behaviour had become commonplace.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,7374-2208320,00.html

In the Ishaqi incident the US military said their investigation into possible wrongdoing by it's forces concluded a few days ago and exonerated the US forces however following the video obtained by the BBC yesterday and the publication of the Iraqi police report http://www.realcities.com/mld/krwashington/14138980.htm on the incident some sources such as the Toronto Star claim the pentagon has now agreed to open a new investigation.

Given the evidence supplied already in the Iraqi police report, including forensics, which was available to the investigators it is incredible that the pentagon investigation cleared the soldiers! It seems the norm is for US military investigators to cover-up attrocities such as this unless and until incontrovertible evidence to the contrary, which they cannot suppress, is produced publically.

My bet on the Haditha massacre is the investigators will try to muddy the waters by claiming they need to exhume the bodies of the victims to reach a conclusion in the hope the victims' families will not allow it as it is against their religion. I suspect they will then use this to get the marines off the hook despite the fact they already have the autopsy reports and photos of the bodies.

 

[Rach3]

I am very worried at how the military investigation into the Ishaqi killings came to the conclusion it did, without resolving its glaring contradiction with videotaped evidence:

Meanwhile, further details were emerging of another incident in Ishaqi, north of Baghdad in March. US officials said at the time that a militant, two women and a child died when US troops became involved in a firefight after a tip-off that an al-Qaeda supporter was visiting a house in the town.

The BBC has obtained video which appears to contradict this. The footage instead appears to back an Iraqi police report that US troops rounded up and shot 11 people - including four women and five children - in the head.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,7374-2208320,00.html

Interview with a relative at Ishaqi:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060603/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq_haditha_22;_ylt=AkiXHp.SMBpxGaVhvRQR9N9X6GMA;_ylu=X3oDMTBiMW04NW9mBHNlYwMlJVRPUCUl