Differentiating the equation for the mechanical energy of a spring

In summary, the conversation discussed differentiating ##E = \frac {1}{2}mv^2 + \frac {1}{2}kx^2## with respect to time and the resulting answer being ##\frac {dE}{dt} = mva + kxv##. It was clarified that the correct derivative is ##\frac{dE}{dt}=mva+kxv##, and it was explained that this is due to the chain rule. The conversation also touched on the derivative of ##x^2## with respect to x, which is ##2x##, and how this relates to the chain rule in differentiating the original equation.
  • #1
member 731016
Homework Statement
Please see below
Relevant Equations
## E = \frac {1}{2}mv^2 + \frac {1}{2}kx^2 ##
Why when we differentiate ## E = \frac {1}{2}mv^2 + \frac {1}{2}kx^2 ## with respect to time the answer is ## \frac {dE}{dt} = mva + kxv ##?

I though it would be ##\frac {dE}{dt} = ma + kv ##.

Many thanks!
 
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  • #2
Callumnc1 said:
Homework Statement:: Please see below
Relevant Equations:: ## E = \frac {1}{2}mv^2 + \frac {1}{2}kx^2 ##

Why when we differentiate ## E = \frac {1}{2}mv^2 + \frac {1}{2}kx^2 ## with respect to time the answer is ## \frac {dE}{dt} = mva + kxv ##?

I though it would be ##\frac {dE}{dt} = ma + kv ##.

Many thanks!
What is the derivative of ##x^2## wrt ##x##?
 
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  • #3
Chain rule. x and v are functions of t.
 
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  • #4
The time rate of change in energy is power.

With what you thought it would be the units on the RHS are Force added to Force per unit time. Not only are neither of them power, they are also dimensionally inconsistent with each other.
 
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  • #5
haruspex said:
What is the derivative of ##x^2## wrt ##x##?
Thank you for your reply @haruspex ! I don't think I've ever taken the derivative of ##x^2## wrt ##x##. I think I've only the derivative of ##y## wrt ##x##. How would I take the derivative?
 
  • #6
Frabjous said:
Chain rule. x and v are functions of t.
Thank you for your reply @Frabjous !
 
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  • #7
erobz said:
The time rate of change in energy is power.

With what you thought it would be the units on the RHS are Force added to Force per unit time. Not only are neither of them power, they are also dimensionally inconsistent with each other.
Thank you for your reply @erobz !
 
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  • #8
Callumnc1 said:
Thank you for your reply @haruspex ! I don't think I've ever taken the derivative of ##x^2## wrt ##x##. I think I've only the derivative of ##y## wrt ##x##. How would I take the derivative?
You almost certainly have, you just don’t realize it. ##y=x^2##
 
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  • #9
erobz said:
You almost certainly have, you just don’t realize it. ##y=x^2##
Thanks for your reply @erobz!

Oh I thought that was taking the derivative of y with respect to x to get ##2x##?
 
  • #10
Callumnc1 said:
Thanks for your reply @erobz!

Oh I thought that was taking the derivative of y with respect to x to get ##2x##?
That’s correct. Then you apply the chain rule. First differentiate ##y =x^2 ## wrt ##x##, then ##x## wrt ##t##.
 
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  • #11
erobz said:
That’s correct. Then you apply the chain rule. First differentiate ##y =x^2 ## wrt ##x##, then ##x## wrt ##t##.
Thank you for your reply @erobz! I think it would be ## y = (2x)\frac {dx}{dt} ##
 
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  • #12
Callumnc1 said:
Thank you for your reply @erobz! I think it would be ## y = (2x)\frac {dx}{dt} ##
Do you see how it works out?
 
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  • #13
Callumnc1 said:
Thank you for your reply @erobz! I think it would be ## y = (2x)\frac {dx}{dt} ##
Not quite. You must do the same to each side of an equation.
The derivative of y wrt x is ##\frac{dy}{dx}##.
The derivative of ##x^2## wrt x is ##\frac{d(x^2)}{dx}=2x##.
So differentiating both sides of ##y=x^2## wrt x gives
##\frac{dy}{dx}=2x##.
 
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  • #14
haruspex said:
Not quite. You must do the same to each side of an equation.
The derivative of y wrt x is ##\frac{dy}{dx}##.
The derivative of ##x^2## wrt x is ##\frac{d(x^2)}{dx}=2x##.
So differentiating both sides of ##y=x^2## wrt x gives
##\frac{dy}{dx}=x^2##.
last line typo:

$$ \frac{dy}{dx}= 2x $$
 
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  • #15
erobz said:
last line typo:

$$ \frac{dy}{dx}= 2x $$
thanks - corrected,
 
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  • #16
haruspex said:
Not quite. You must do the same to each side of an equation.
The derivative of y wrt x is ##\frac{dy}{dx}##.
The derivative of ##x^2## wrt x is ##\frac{d(x^2)}{dx}=2x##.
So differentiating both sides of ##y=x^2## wrt x gives
##\frac{dy}{dx}=2x##.
Thank you for your replies @erobz and haruspex! Sorry, that was a silly mistake I should not have made!
 

Related to Differentiating the equation for the mechanical energy of a spring

What is the equation for the mechanical energy of a spring?

The mechanical energy of a spring is given by the equation \( E = \frac{1}{2} k x^2 \), where \( E \) is the mechanical energy, \( k \) is the spring constant, and \( x \) is the displacement from the equilibrium position.

How do you differentiate the mechanical energy equation of a spring with respect to displacement?

To differentiate the mechanical energy equation \( E = \frac{1}{2} k x^2 \) with respect to displacement \( x \), you apply the power rule of differentiation. The derivative is \( \frac{dE}{dx} = kx \).

What does the derivative of the mechanical energy equation represent physically?

The derivative \( \frac{dE}{dx} = kx \) represents the force exerted by the spring. This is consistent with Hooke's Law, which states that the force exerted by a spring is proportional to its displacement, \( F = -kx \). The negative sign indicates that the force is restorative, acting in the direction opposite to the displacement.

Why is the spring constant \( k \) important in the differentiation process?

The spring constant \( k \) is a measure of the stiffness of the spring. It remains constant during differentiation and directly affects the magnitude of the force calculated from the derivative. A higher \( k \) means a stiffer spring, which produces a larger force for a given displacement.

Can the differentiation process be applied to springs with non-linear characteristics?

For springs with non-linear characteristics, the mechanical energy equation may not be \( E = \frac{1}{2} k x^2 \). Instead, a different potential energy function that accurately describes the spring's behavior must be used. The differentiation process would then be applied to this new function to find the corresponding force. Non-linear springs require a specific form of the potential energy function based on their unique properties.

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