Do doctors make a lot more money than engineers?

[onlycurious]

1) You can't make the argument that it takes on average engineers 5 years to graduate. That is a general trend amongst all college majors, including the biggest feeder to medical school, Biology. So you'd have to add a year to both.

2) My brother graduated from UCLA with a bachelors in Engineering after 4 years, and then got his masters from UC Davis in one year. He then started working at over 50 thousand a year for a 40 hour work week. This is before he has taken his PE, so this would be like the"internship" you talked about.

3) In medical school education, you have 4-5 years of undergrad and then 4years of medical school no exceptions. If you want to compare you have to look at the amount of money per hour not total per year. Yes the 50 thousand for an engineer after 5 years of education seems to be close to the 42 thousand after 8 years, however, what about per hour? The engineer is making $24.03 per hours. During the 3 to 5 year medical residency they are making $10.09 per hour. That is a HUGE difference. Not to mention that many of the 80 hours worked by a residency take place in 24to 36 hour shifts.

Please note I am not putting down the training an engineer receives, I have a great deal of respect for all engineers. But the education, sacrifice and training doesn't compare to that of medical education. Of course, the end salary of medical doctors tends to be a little bit higher than engineers so that helps many medical students deal with the abuse for 12 years of their adult lives.

1) Well, like I said, engineering degrees (most of the time) requires more credit hours and it's usually from a semester to a year more worth of credits.

2) UCLA, UC Davis? Did your brother get a job in California just above $50,000? That's ridiculous, he is getting underpaid as an engineer especially with a masters degree. And no, that is not the internship I'm talking about. Internships should be taking place during your junior/senior year of your undergraduate program and into your graduate program if you choose to get your masters.

3) So in the end, using the same time period:

Doctors = 5 years undergrad + 4 years med school + 3 years residency = 12 years training making roughly $150,000+ a year.

Senior Engineers = 5 years undergrad (while an intern) + 2 years masters (while an intern) + 5 years experience = 12 years training making roughly $100,000+ a year.

 

[onlycurious]

Starting salaries for engineers with bachelor's degrees at large US corporations are in a tight range around $60k now. ABET accredited engineering degrees are designed to be completed in 4 years. Taking time off to work at an internship can hardly count as time added to the major. Many (most?) master's programs are 10 courses and can be completed in 3 semesters, or one year. Some can be completed in 2 semesters. Even longer programs can typically be completed in a year. Stanford requires 15 courses, and their curriculum is designed to be completed in 3-4 quarters.

You're thinking about it too simply, if you're going into engineering, there are steps you need to take. Let's say, the average student graduates in 5 years. So our engineering student in his 3rd, 4th, 5th year should be involved in an internship with a company (not just during the summer). This obviously will take away time from academics, maybe taking less classes or what not. Even if he goes on to get a masters, he should still be doing an internship. Otherwise, if you have the education without the internship experience, it's going to be tough finding a job.

"Taking time off to work at an internship can hardly count as time added to the major." If that's the case, residency shouldn't count as time added to the major. Sorry, but companies don't let you just sit there and do homework while you take their money. They want you to work and gain experience and come back to the company if you do a good job.

 

[kote]

You're thinking about it too simply, if you're going into engineering, there are steps you need to take. Let's say, the average student graduates in 5 years. So our engineering student in his 3rd, 4th, 5th year should be involved in an internship with a company (not just during the summer). This obviously will take away time from academics, maybe taking less classes or what not. Even if he goes on to get a masters, he should still be doing an internship. Otherwise, if you have the education without the internship experience, it's going to be tough finding a job.

"Taking time off to work at an internship can hardly count as time added to the major." If that's the case, residency shouldn't count as time added to the major. Sorry, but companies don't let you just sit there and do homework while you take their money. They want you to work and gain experience and come back to the company if you do a good job.

I graduated with an ABET accredited engineering degree, a double major, and minor in 4 years. It was unusual for any of my classmates to take more than 4 years, and many also double majored. I understand some schools are different and encourage internships during the semester - that's fine, but it's certainly not a requirement.

I am now in an engineering leadership program at GE. Experience is a near requirement for being hired, but it doesn't matter where it came from. Having a coop during a semester is definitely not required. I had one summer internship. This past week another student from my school had a successful interview with the program despite not having any internship experience.

As for the master's, I'm still confused where this 2 year number is coming from (see RPI, GA Tech, Stanford, etc). Another common option, especially at companies like GE, UTC, etc, is to earn a master's part time while working. For GE engineering development program members the typical path is 4 years of school plus a part time master's and hundreds of hours of corporate training while gaining work experience. For those interested in money, 4 years of college + 3 years work experience / part time MS + 2 years MBA will get you 2 master's degrees and $150k/yr at ~27, or younger if you skip the part time MS.

If you're after money, and you're good, it's there as an engineer.

 

[Locrian]

Everyone here who has sat down with a spreadsheet (or paper + calculator) and figured up the net present value of an engineering degree and medical degree that includes the following variables:

# of years in college, # of years resident, starting pay, variation in salary over time, interest rate, years employed, amount of college/med school debt

raise your hand.

(Raises his hand).

It's a learning experience. It's interesting to compare to other professions: law, actuarial work, pro baseball player. If you can include other variables, such as variance in pay, and model them, that even makes it more fun, though I've only barely dipped into that (largely due to lack of data).

When I was done with the above excersizes, the question "Does so-and-so make more money than so-and-so?" started to seem weird, to put it nicely. Your mileage may vary.

 

[Choppy]

Everyone here who has sat down with a spreadsheet (or paper + calculator) and figured up the net present value of an engineering degree and medical degree that includes the following variables:

# of years in college, # of years resident, starting pay, variation in salary over time, interest rate, years employed, amount of college/med school debt

raise your hand.

(Raises his hand).

It's a learning experience. It's interesting to compare to other professions: law, actuarial work, pro baseball player. If you can include other variables, such as variance in pay, and model them, that even makes it more fun, though I've only barely dipped into that (largely due to lack of data).

When I was done with the above excersizes, the question "Does so-and-so make more money than so-and-so?" started to seem weird, to put it nicely. Your mileage may vary.

Kind of like shopping by comparing monthly payments instead of actual price.

 

[Locrian]

Kind of like shopping by comparing monthly payments instead of actual price.

That's a perfect comparison, and I hope you don't mind if I use it in the future.

Seriously, why didn't I think of putting it that way?