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user079622
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Does wing really fly in already downward moving air?
Video from 18:15 - 19:40
Video from 18:15 - 19:40
Does a wing fly in its own downwash?
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In summary, the question "Does a wing fly in its own downwash?" explores the aerodynamic concept of downwash, which is the downward airflow created by a wing as it generates lift. The answer is nuanced; while a wing does experience its own downwash, the effects are complex and depend on various factors, including the wing's angle of attack and the surrounding airflow. Ultimately, the wing operates in a modified flow field influenced by its downwash, impacting its lift and performance but not negating its ability to fly effectively.
- #2
FactChecker
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I am not an expert in aerodynamics, but here is my two cents:
The wing is disturbing the horizontal air flow so that the air ahead of it is going up and the air behind it is going down. So it is "in" (as in producing) both an updraft and a downdraft that it is in the middle of. Because it is producing these effects, this should not be considered the same as a wing in the downwash of another airplane. Confusing that would be like confusing cause and effect.
The wing is disturbing the horizontal air flow so that the air ahead of it is going up and the air behind it is going down. So it is "in" (as in producing) both an updraft and a downdraft that it is in the middle of. Because it is producing these effects, this should not be considered the same as a wing in the downwash of another airplane. Confusing that would be like confusing cause and effect.
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user079622
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What @boneh3ad tell about this?
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I don't understand the question.
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user079622
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If wing fly in own downwash, that would mean air ahead of the wing already moving downward.boneh3ad said:
Author in my video tell that in 18:47
So I ask is this case in reality?
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I mean, his crudely-drawn hand sketch is not precise, if that's what you are asking.
But any object moving through a fluid medium is going to cause that fluid to deform around it. If it's subsonic, that influence on the medium extends upstream of the object. So, sure, some of that induced flow over a finite wing is downward, reducing lift.
Why are you asking me, though? Do you have reason to doubt Dr. Lippisch an his long career designing and building aircraft that actually fly?
But any object moving through a fluid medium is going to cause that fluid to deform around it. If it's subsonic, that influence on the medium extends upstream of the object. So, sure, some of that induced flow over a finite wing is downward, reducing lift.
Why are you asking me, though? Do you have reason to doubt Dr. Lippisch an his long career designing and building aircraft that actually fly?
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user079622
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Because I see upward movement of air ahead of wing...not downward..boneh3ad said:
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russ_watters
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That's an airfoil, not a wing. It's 2-dimensional. The downwash is a 3-D wing effect that doesn't occur in this 2-D case.user079622 said:
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user079622
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OK just reduce this upwash a little but and you get picture for wing.russ_watters said:
Or you want to say that air moves downward ahead of wing ?
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DaveE
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russ_watters said:
The image in your OP shows wingtip vortices. Is that what you are asking about? In 2-D you don't have any beginning or end of your wing.user079622 said:
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russ_watters
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The flow isn't uniform across the span, so I'd say there's no general answer for the question. I suspect there is upwards flow in front of parts of the wing and downwards flow in front of other parts. But I don't think I've seen a 3D representation of the flow field.user079622 said:
- #12
user079622
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By the way this CFD is made on wing , it show airfoil because show streamlines at one place at wing ..it show wing profile at that location
- #13
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The net downward flow of the air is the cause of lift. But that is primarily aft of the wing. The wing is the cause of the downflow and does not have the same effect of a wing in a downflow from following another airplane. So not all downflows are the same.
- #14
user079622
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This is upwash ahead of wing for different aspect ratios.FactChecker said:
russ_watters said:
This CFD is made on wing , it show airfoil because show streamlines at one place at wing ..it show wing profile at that location
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- #15
Nik_2213
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If 'downwash' concept was strictly true, wouldn't aircraft with winglets / tip vortex recovery devices be unable to fly ??
Given they fly better than without, there's an over-simplification some-where in OC's source...
Given they fly better than without, there's an over-simplification some-where in OC's source...
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Drakkith
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What I got from the video is that an aircraft flying through the air is like a person jogging in sand. The air and the sand both deform when weight is applied and you have to perform extra work to account for this. For the aircraft, this may already be shown in the airflow diagrams provided, but I doubt that's something that can be 'eyeballed' from them.
FAQ: Does a wing fly in its own downwash?
What is downwash in the context of wing aerodynamics?
Downwash refers to the downward deflection of the airflow as it passes over and beyond a wing. This phenomenon occurs because the wing generates lift by accelerating air downward, which results in a reaction force that lifts the wing upward.
Does a wing actually fly in its own downwash?
No, a wing does not fly in its own downwash. The downwash created by a wing affects the airflow behind and below the wing, but the wing itself is primarily influenced by the airflow approaching it from the front. The wing generates lift by manipulating this incoming airflow.
How does downwash affect the performance of an aircraft?
Downwash affects the performance of an aircraft by influencing the effective angle of attack experienced by the horizontal tail surfaces and other components. It can also contribute to induced drag, which is a byproduct of lift generation. Pilots and engineers must account for these effects when designing and flying aircraft.
Can downwash be beneficial in any way?
Yes, downwash can be beneficial in certain contexts. For example, in formation flying, trailing aircraft can take advantage of the altered airflow patterns created by the lead aircraft's downwash to reduce their own induced drag, thereby improving fuel efficiency.
How do engineers mitigate the negative effects of downwash?
Engineers mitigate the negative effects of downwash through various design strategies, such as optimizing wing shapes, using winglets to reduce induced drag, and carefully designing the aircraft's tail surfaces to handle the altered airflow. Computational fluid dynamics (CFD) and wind tunnel testing are often employed to refine these designs.