Emma Watson on Equality and UN HeForShe Campaign

[WWGD]

...Wow, just reading this thread and it's absurd just how much concentrated, vitriolic hate there is directed at radfems - radfems who apparently control all of government and the media, somehow. Are they the new Illuminati or something?

Actually, never mind - there isn't hate directed at radfems, but hate directed at women who stand up for themselves. Really sad to see such a thing.

I don't know who you are referring to, but I never stated that these women control anything; I said that some of the members of brands I believe to be radical occupy positions of power , have financial backing and have access to the mainstream media, i.e., they are not marginal(ized) figures. That is all I said.

And, just curious, what is it they are standing up for, what is it that is so horrible that is being done to them, or that is afflicting them?

 

[Tobias Funke]

Again, point out the racist like, or retract . If you don't, I will report your post.

No, stop doing this. Report what you will, you know I stated very clearly that I don't think you're racist. I even quickly edited the post because I didn't initially make that clear enough and it could be genuinely confusing. If you insist on throwing fits and being outraged at all your misreadings, that's not my problem. For the last time, and then I'm done with you, I'm pointing out that the poster who believes that the rights of men are under attack also seems to believe that the rights of white people (white men at least) are under attack. That's no coincidence; the two beliefs are often paired. That's all I said, and I think it's worthwhile to consider the similar techniques used to plant and foster such beliefs.

 

[GTOM]

http://honeybadgerbrigade.com/2014/09/30/an-open-letter-to-emma-watson/While Emma has good points, but as it was mentioned before, even the name of the campaign is suspicious, He for She, why not He AND She?I expect this soon turns into a campaign of :
- traditional family model is bad
- boys should be wussies
- women shouldn't become housewifes
- ban porn
- abortion is basic woman right, but men has to pay for unwanted kids and should be punished for going to a prostitue

The seeds are already there (why no gender equality in ANY country, why boys arent sensitive, i was sexualized...) and they will be nurtured by people who barely cares about real rape victims, they care about sue men for sexist jokes, get taxpayer money for fighting against phantoms, make stupid roles, extend their influence.

If i will be wrong, that would be a positive development.

And of course i agree there are many parts of the world where isn't legal equality, and i see that a bad thing, both for females, and boys.
http://www.mediaite.com/online/why-...rning-boys-alive-wake-media-up-to-boko-haram/

 

[nikkkom]

As has been stated, the majority of people in our country making laws are men, and the majority of professors are men.

Majority of people working in the fashion industry are women. I take it men must fight for equality there, pronto. I demand the quotas to be instituted for men in the fashion industry. Sarcasm.

Men in power who would oppress women are nearly guaranteed to outnumber the women in power who would oppress men.

Men who will get abused in prisons are nearly guaranteed to outnumber the women (because the prison population is predominantly male). I take it men are horribly oppressed. Sarcasm.

Politically, the power balance greatly favors men, so I am not concerned about extreme feminist ideas gaining traction in our legal system.

Search the net for harrowing stories of male divorcees who lost everything - family, children, home, money - because courts are far more often side with a woman on these issues. (No, I'm not holding a personal grudge. I'm not a divorcee).

As it currently stands, marital and divorce laws are in fact already so unfair towards men that I would recommend to never marry - just live together without formally marrying.

 

[Bandersnatch]

Is it really so hard to stop pretending it's a football match and not choose sides? How about we start condemning inequality without first checking between our legs which side of the argument we need to turn a blind eye to?

 

[WWGD]

Is it really so hard to stop pretending it's a football match and not choose sides? How about we start condemning inequality without first checking between our legs which side of the argument we need to turn a blind eye to?

Well, what happens is that there are real-life consequences to the trashing and demonizing of men; claims like " a woman is sexually-assaulted every two seconds (Carolyn Maloney, D-NY), expressed without any qualification (is an incident reported as assault by a woman automatically considered to be an assault? Does the man get to give his side? Ever heard of "innocent until proven guilty? Isn't there an element of subjectivity associated with an (alleged) assault?), or the old canard that a woman makes $.70 for every $1.00 a man makes (again: why would anyone hire a man)?

Listen, it is not a matter of nitpicking, nor a matter of boys are better than girls; there are very real consequences to these beliefs and to these claims being made. These beliefs shape public attitudes and public policies. I mean, what do you think will happen if a man goes looking for a job , and the interviewer has been hearing repeatedly how men have had unfair advantages over women for years? What do you think will happen if you have a discussion with a woman in a public place and you happen to raise your voice, and there is a cop nearby that has been hearing repeatedly that a woman is assaulted every two seconds? Don't you think that seriously raises the chances that you will get in trouble or even go to jail? And now the state of NY openly favors businesses owned by women.
Beliefs have consequences; it is a reality of the world we live in. That is why I post what I post; ideas have consequences. And, guess what: ignoring what the nuts say doesn't work.

Now, if you have a suggestion for how to address this, I will gladly hear it. It would be nice to live in a world where this doesn't matter, but, like it or not, beliefs have consequences, and the trashing and demonizing of men has very real negative consequences for your average man.

 

[lisab]

Well, what happens is that there are real-life consequences to the trashing and demonizing of men; claims like " a woman is sexually-assaulted every two seconds (Carolyn Maloney, D-NY), expressed without any qualification (is an incident reported as assault by a woman automatically considered to be an assault? Does the man get to give his side? Ever heard of "innocent until proven guilty? Isn't there an element of subjectivity associated with an (alleged) assault?), or the old canard that a woman makes $.70 for every $1.00 a man makes (again: why would anyone hire a man)?

Listen, it is not a matter of nitpicking, nor a matter of boys are better than girls; there are very real consequences to these beliefs and to these claims being made. These beliefs shape public attitudes and public policies. I mean, what do you think will happen if a man goes looking for a job , and the interviewer has been hearing repeatedly how men have had unfair advantages over women for years? What do you think will happen if you have a discussion with a woman in a public place and you happen to raise your voice, and there is a cop nearby that has been hearing repeatedly that a woman is assaulted every two seconds? Don't you think that seriously raises the chances that you will get in trouble or even go to jail? And now the state of NY openly favors businesses owned by women.
Beliefs have consequences; it is a reality of the world we live in. That is why I post what I post; ideas have consequences. And, guess what: ignoring what the nuts say doesn't work.

Now, if you have a suggestion for how to address this, I will gladly hear it. It would be nice to live in a world where this doesn't matter, but, like it or not, beliefs have consequences, and the trashing and demonizing of men has very real negative consequences for your average man.

Ironic to hear you calling out people who have made statements without qualification. You've done the same so many times in this thread.

We've strayed far from the OP on Watson's speech, into "things people on the fringe say that piss me off". Stop it. Get back on topic.

Everyone: the innerwebs are full of places where people can simply kvetch at the world. PF isn't one of those places.

 

[WWGD]

I am willing to offer support for any and every claim I have made, and include data if needed; please don't say that I have made statements without qualification or give examples of such claims. And my whole point is that _ it is not a fringe_ , and that is why I bring it up. Still, I will try to get back on topic.

 

[jz92wjaz]

@nikkkom
The purpose of my post was to respond to another poster who has expressed repeated concerns that feminists have infiltrated certain areas of the system, like academia, and are using that power to unfairly push their cause at the expense of men. My response was that I am not overly concerned about it, because there are a lot of people out there who act as a counterbalance to what radical feminism pushes for, including women. I am a supporter of middle of the road discussions on this issue. I think there are valid concerns that men and women have, and there are changes that should be made. I am most certainly not pushing for equal representation of women in politics and academia, because I think most differences in society between the genders are down to personal choice. Men are more likely to make choices that put them in politics and academia, and women make choices that place them in other portions of society, and I see no reason to spend time and money trying to fix something of minimal consequence that is caused by personal choice.

I am opposed to radical feminism and radical men's groups. I've seen the ugly side of both groups, and I think it only serves to divide men and women when we focus on the negative, instead of the good. I see normal men and women who take on a variety of different labels who truly want equal opportunity and fair treatement, who are constantly drowned out by those on the fringe who have distorted our perceptions on gender issues. I believe there is a great need for men and women in the middle to come together and take a look at all of these issues, which are human issues, and have reasonable discussions on how we can change the things that need to be changed. In that sense, I am supportive of the brand of feminism that Emma Watson is talking about.

 

[nikkkom]

I just learned that Tokyo subway has "women-only" trains.
Is it funny or outrageous? You decide.

 

[russ_watters]

I just learned that Tokyo subway has "women-only" trains.
Is it funny or outrageous? You decide.

These days it can be tough to know which way the prejudice points...whether it is discrimination against or special treatment for.

In this case, I'll go with special treatment to counteract the rampant sexual assault problem in Japanese mass transit. Am I right?

 

[nikkkom]

These days it can be tough to know which way the prejudice points...whether it is discrimination against or special treatment for.

Special treatment IS discrimination.