Ethics of Immigration Restriction

[olde drunk]

ray b

it is easy to understand that there are 'local' problems with anything that we do as americans. hell, all the people living about 50 miles from any metro area are *****in like crazy that their 'nice country town' ain't what it use to be. an unfortunate cost of progress.

would you suggest that we also pass regulations that if you were born in East LA or Harlem or North Philly that you must stay within the city limits. there will be no migration to the burbs in order to protect the life style of the rich and fortunate.

once we start with regulations, they are like minks, they multiply. can't remember the Startrek episode exact name but like 'trevels'(little fuzzy balls)?

peace,

 

[Njorl]

Just replace "Mestizo" or "Cuban" with "Italian" and this thread could travel back in time 100 years.

Njorl

 

[ray b]

Originally posted by Rader
You should state the facts as they are, not as you wish to state them. There is no unrestricted imigration. There are quotas each year to fill the needed work force. If you do not want immigration, ask yourself the question, did i give at least 2.0 children to fill the work force. The problem is not the immigrants, it the politicians. Instead of spending billions on weapons, a war should be waged on hunger in all these needed countries and there would be no need to immigrate elsewhere. Money should be spent on solving world problems of hunger, education, tecknology for a higher standard of living for all Earthlings. Let me remind you my friend that you and I immigrated to America though our ancestors and America belonged to the Indians. Immigrants are just as important as you or I are. Americas greatness is because of its diversified ethnic mix. The land of oportunity for all. Take your beef to the Politicians.

no unrestricted imirgration?
what is the quotas for illegals
or semi-illegals, ie over stay their visa
or students who forget to return
or just sneek in
sure there are LAWS , BUT they are very seldom inforced here, no or very very few sweeps, no random checks, only if a person is unlucky enuff to commite a major crime are they sometimes checked here, slightly more often post 9-11 now, then the allmost never in the resent past.
so we have about a million illegals in south fla plus more dryfoot cubans every day, in addition to the FULL resent Quota

my people came over on the Speedwell, 2nd ship after the Mayflower landing on a rock, plymouth rock, not a port or airport
and they built this land out of rocks and trees and bears and stold it fair and square from the indians by killing more of them then they got of us
and built the greatest nation on Earth that I don't feel like giving up or living in 3rd world condistions but we now have 3rd world cops, FBI catches some but there are too many, over 100 fired in the river cops case, unliciended doctors and dentists,ect
and ever lower wages for all workers here as a result of tooooo many legal and illegal imigrants

taking my beef to the Politicians will not work thanks to block voting the Politicians
are now all most all 3rd worlders too or too scaried of speaking out againts the block votes

miami is the first victom of the reconquesta

btw less people is MORE in , more jobs at a better rate of pay for all as less supply = higher rates of pay
we don't need more people for anything
excpt more crowding ,polution, and crime.

 

[NIT14]

Let me remind you my friend that you and I immigrated to America though our ancestors and America belonged to the Indians. Immigrants are just as important as you or I are. Americas greatness is because of its diversified ethnic mix. The land of oportunity for all. Take your beef to the Politicians.

There is a difference between immigration when this country was first established and immigration today. Our forefathers would certainly not approve of the non-White invasion from the south. Like I have already stated, their intentions were to create a nation for their "sons." Once again, a "successful" multicultural society is unprecedented.

hell, all the people living about 50 miles from any metro area are *****in like crazy that their 'nice country town' ain't what it use to be. an unfortunate cost of progress.

You must have a very strange, perverse definition of "progress."

 

[olde drunk]

i must be confused. we go through life to amass money, property and position so that we can pass it on to our sons? just how do we do this??

the only thing i can do for my sons is to agree to their birth and offer guidance as they make their way through life (let's get past the child needs). whether my son gets 50cents or 50 million it is not going to make his life happy unless he is able to do that for himself. whether my son goes to a racially mixed school or a private school, he isn't going to learn better or worse unless he wants to be educated.

the point being, i cannot guarantee that he will be happy with or without borders/walls. perhaps his soul mate is alive in europe, asia or south america, and just waiting to meet him.

having a safe country has absolutely nothing to do with immigration. no, i am not a liberal that hasn't been mugged. i grew up in a city in the 40's-50's during the puerto-rican 'invasion'. trust me, violence and crime is nothing new and is not the product of mixed cultures(most crimes are committed by people against their own race).

having lived with puerto-ricans, worked with blacks and other races i have learned that most people are good. the bad ones come from all back grounds. what we need is a better understanding that violence and crime are the product of helplessness and/or hoplessness. a caring parent with a loving hug is more valuable than all the protection and wealth in the world. eliteism(elitetism?) only feeds the potential for violence and crime. we only reap what we sow.

peace,

 

[Rader]

reconquista

Originally posted by ray b
no unrestricted imirgration?
what is the quotas for illegals
or semi-illegals, ie over stay their visa
or students who forget to return
or just sneek in
sure there are LAWS , BUT they are very seldom inforced here, no or very very few sweeps, no random checks, only if a person is unlucky enuff to commite a major crime are they sometimes checked here, slightly more often post 9-11 now, then the allmost never in the resent past.
so we have about a million illegals in south fla plus more dryfoot cubans every day, in addition to the FULL resent Quota

I agree immigration should be controlled. I live in Almuñecar Spain and the Africans try and come in by the boat load, many die, drowning trying to do it. Why because the living conditions in those countries are appalling. The laws here they try to inforce and do, the best they can. When your hungry and destitute, the last thing you think about is laws, saying you need a visa.

my people came over on the Speedwell, 2nd ship after the Mayflower landing on a rock, plymouth rock, not a port or airport
and they built this land out of rocks and trees and bears and stold it fair and square from the indians by killing more of them then they got of us

I would not let the Chicanos read your post they just might take you up on your suggestion. Steeling and killing is wrong for any reason. If you have that attitude you deserve what you get.

and built the greatest nation on Earth that I don't feel like giving up or living in 3rd world condistions but we now have 3rd world cops, FBI catches some but there are too many, over 100 fired in the river cops case, unliciended doctors and dentists,ect
and ever lower wages for all workers here as a result of tooooo many legal and illegal imigrants.

Thats fine you sound like you are proud of your heritage, so am I. Cities always have these problems, where you are and all over the world. Did you ever wonder why there is not so much Irish, Italian, German immigation like there once was? Its because those countries now have the same standard of living as the USA. The solution is helping the poor third world countries to come up to the same standared of living and they would not want to leave.

taking my beef to the Politicians will not work thanks to block voting the Politicians
are now all most all 3rd worlders too or too scaried of speaking out againts the block votes

miami is the first victom of the reconquesta

Se escribe reconquista not reconquesta. Good old John Wayne spelled it that way, bless his soul.

btw less people is MORE in , more jobs at a better rate of pay for all as less supply = higher rates of pay
we don't need more people for anything
excpt more crowding ,polution, and crime.
Try moving to the counry, like most who want elbow room.

 

[Rader]

all people are created equal

Originally posted by NIT14
There is a difference between immigration when this country was first established and immigration today. Our forefathers would certainly not approve of the non-White invasion from the south. Like I have already stated, their intentions were to create a nation for their "sons." Once again, a "successful" multicultural society is unprecedented.

"Really did the Indains approve of the invsion of there country" You have a warped sense of the present and also the past. While i have not lived in the USA for 25 years, i would have hoped that the conscious level of most Americans was well beyond your racist 1950 ideas.

You must have a very strange, perverse definition of "progress."

My definition of progress is that all humans are created equal and the laws of this planet should reflect that. The reason being that we are all created in the image and likeness of God. In you do not believe me read the constitution of the United States of America written by our fourfathers you seem to have so much esteem for. I repeat take your beef to the politicians. It was polititions who wrote the constitution.

 

[Rader]

Originally posted by Rader

Read it. http://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/constitution.overview.html

 

[NaD]

Damn, I'm gone for a few days and I lose track of this thread.. lol..

Don't have the time to quote people and directly reply, but here are my general arguments:

-The argument that we don't have a better claim to this land than today's immigrants is fallacious. The land belongs to those who conquered it (by military) and made the country what it is today (are you going to argue that mexicans built this country?)

-The issue of tolerance. Someone said 'if everyone thought that way, there would be no progress' (or something along those lines). That is fallacious, and it is that fallacy that is being used against white people and European culture by those who call for multiculturalism. I don't see why white people and European culture/civilisation should have to be the victim. If a white person is proud of being white, it's racism, but if a black person is proud of being black, it's 'black pride.' double standards?

Sick of the multicultural propaganda,

NaD

 

[NIT14]

This is like a broken record, but I will continue...

i must be confused. we go through life to amass money, property and position so that we can pass it on to our sons? just how do we do this??

It doesn't really have anything to do with money. It has to do with the land and its integrity. Clearly, the quality of life in America is in decline.

whether my son goes to a racially mixed school or a private school, he isn't going to learn better or worse unless he wants to be educated.

Well, statistics beg to differ. Do you think each school has the same ability to educate as the next? You're crazy. There are good schools, and there are bad schools. Not just racially, but culturally diverse classrooms tend to be less effective. Why should the entire class be set back because Carlos, the Mexican immigrant, is slower than the American kids?

the point being, i cannot guarantee that he will be happy with or without borders/walls. perhaps his soul mate is alive in europe, asia or south america, and just waiting to meet him.

I'm sorry, but you must be living in a hippie fantasy world. Nothing is sounding logical.

having a safe country has absolutely nothing to do with immigration. no, i am not a liberal that hasn't been mugged. i grew up in a city in the 40's-50's during the puerto-rican 'invasion'. trust me, violence and crime is nothing new and is not the product of mixed cultures(most crimes are committed by people against their own race).

Having a safe and clean country has everything to do with protecting our borders. Especially when the invasion we are attempting to prevent is from a 3rd world, culturally, and racially different people. Violence and crime may not be new, but the rate at which it occurs certainly is. Crime happens to be parallel to immigration and "diversity." I really don't care who the majority of the crimes are committed against, I don't want criminals in my environment, do you?

having lived with puerto-ricans, worked with blacks and other races i have learned that most people are good. the bad ones come from all back grounds.

Is that so? Well, I must say, coming to such a conclusion from only your personal experiences is not completely logical. Do you realize that blacks constitute only 12% of the US population, yet they comprise a majority of our prison populations? Are you aware of the amount of drugs smuggled in by illegals? Apparently no issues similar to these concern you. Well, Mr. "progressive," you will see in 20 or so years just how critical these issues really are. While you are blindly living in your "why can't we all just get along" fantasy world, your country will be rotting to the point of no return. Our culture, our genes, and the order of our nation will soon be irreversibly changed.

 

[NaD]

Hey NIT14, good points! It's good to see that there are STILL a few "sane" people who aren't fooled by the multicultural and 'diversity is good' propaganda.

 

[Rader]

USA is multicultural

Originally posted by NaD
Hey NIT14, good points! It's good to see that there are STILL a few "sane" people who aren't fooled by the multicultural and 'diversity is good' propaganda.

Then you make the analogy that all sane people are also blind.
The USA is multicultural and was when it was a diversified culture of different Indian tribes. Early America was multicultural, composed of Indian, Spanish, English, French, German, Irish,Italian, Dutch ect ect. Today the immigration is from other countries and still is multicultural, it has new and differnt cultures that is the only difference. Diversity is what makes America special.

 

[olde drunk]

NIT14 and Nad

sorry, if you guys believe that the minorities and immigration are the cause of your problems then there is little to say.

as i withdraw from this fragment of the thread i can only ask that you look at what is really happening and your beliefs. as long as you feel entitled you will encounter many disappoinments in your life. as long as you believe that minorities are the cause of violence and crime you will never feel safe. again, i only ask that you examine the basis for these beliefs.

nah, i was never a hippie. i was to busy climbing the ladder of corporate america. i did live through it and had my mind opened to 'a better way to solve problems'. it is a shame that the flower power/love movement got lost in the drug culture.

by the way, who is the market for drugs that are smuggled into this country?? and, our 'war on drugs', and all the laws we have, can not stop drugs. in rehab, 90% of the crack addicts are white middle class americans. oh, they wouldn't be there if the columbians didn't bring the drugs in. sure.

laws and regulations will not solve society's ills. you can not legislate intelligent behaviour. nor can you make any community safe by passing laws. you are as safe as you believe you are.

peace,

 

[Omni]

Animals migrate to survive, humans are no different. Animals protect and defend their patch, humans are no different.

 

[olde drunk]

i beg to differ. we have a conscience. when we do harm we are aware of it.

animals do what is necessary to survive. as far as we know, they do not kill for sport.

please, we must be more thoughtful than an animal. how will we ever advance, if we do not share our largess?

peace,

 

[NIT14]

Then you make the analogy that all sane people are also blind.
The USA is multicultural and was when it was a diversified culture of different Indian tribes. Early America was multicultural, composed of Indian, Spanish, English, French, German, Irish,Italian, Dutch ect ect. Today the immigration is from other countries and still is multicultural, it has new and differnt cultures that is the only difference.

America may have been multiCULTURAL since the beginning, but it has certainly not been multiRACIAL. There's actually a profound difference there. When one hears "multicultural," he usually is comprehending "multiracial." This is not always the case. In early America, being White was a prerequisite for citizenship. Sure, there were Indians here still, but we did not mix with them, or allow them citizenship. Racial differences most definitely outweigh cultural differences. Not to mention that with a different ethnic group usually comes an entirely different culture. Racial culture is certainly much different than only regional culture.

Diversity is what makes America special.

What exactly is so special about it? It brings crime, poverty, moral decay, and friction to our society. Life was certainly more orderly in the 1950s when our nation was over 90% White.

sorry, if you guys believe that the minorities and immigration are the cause of your problems then there is little to say.

They aren't necessarily the cause of our problems, but they certainly have more of a malicious effect on our nation and culture than a benevolent, or "progressive" one.

as long as you believe that minorities are the cause of violence and crime you will never feel safe. again, i only ask that you examine the basis for these beliefs.

Haha. So are you suggesting that if I just sit here and pretend that they aren't the primary cause, the crime will magically vanish? Do you think my notions are based on some white supremacist dogma? No. Statistics clearly map out crime by race. Not only do statistics conclude that minorities aren't always the "good" people you make them out to be, my personal experiences have only reinforced this irrefragable fact. I don't care what you believe the crime is a product of, it is going to continue to exist until you take off your PC blindfold and open your eyes.

90% of the crack addicts are white middle class americans.

Well, I'm not sure about the accuracy of this statement, but let's assume it is true...

Consider that Whites are over 70% of the US population. Consider that blacks are a mere 12% of the US population. Now, keep in mind that there is a higher percentage of crack addicts within the black race than there are White crack addicts within the White race. So with all of this being said, we can probably conclude that if the black race comprised 70% of the population and Whites were the 12%, there would be a significantly higher number of crack addicts in this country.

laws and regulations will not solve society's ills. you can not legislate intelligent behaviour. nor can you make any community safe by passing laws. you are as safe as you believe you are.

This is ridiculous. So basically, you're saying that the level of crime is constant, regardless of the law? The higher the consequence, the lower the frequency of the crime. That is common sense. If we executed those who committed rape, or sexual assault(something we should do), there would be a hell of a lot less offenders.

 

[Rader]

Originally posted by NIT14
America may have been multiCULTURAL since the beginning, but it has certainly not been multiRACIAL. There's actually a profound difference there. When one hears "multicultural," he usually is comprehending "multiracial." This is not always the case. In early America, being White was a prerequisite for citizenship. Sure, there were Indians here still, but we did not mix with them, or allow them citizenship. Racial differences most definitely outweigh cultural differences. Not to mention that with a different ethnic group usually comes an entirely different culture. Racial culture is certainly much different than only regional culture.

Multicultural Of, relating to, or including several cultures. In early America, being White was a prerequisite for citizenship, Yes this is called racism and it is morally illegal, today as it was then. Today all men are created equal, that is why a constitution was drawn to express that, and amendments over the years to express the wisdom, that man has learned since 1776.
Conquerers have been replaced with democracy. Racist ideas with wisdom of equality for all men.

What exactly is so special about it? It brings crime, poverty, moral decay, and friction to our society. Life was certainly more orderly in the 1950s when our nation was over 90% White.

Its special, because mostly you and your attitude have become extinct like the dinosaurs. Its special cause any man or women, of any race has the same oportunity, as you and I do, to all the good things in life, if they want to achieve them. Unfortunately, there still is countries in the world, where this is not so.

They aren't necessarily the cause of our problems, but they certainly have more of a malicious effect on our nation and culture than a benevolent, or "progressive" one.

Maybe we should take a vote on the thread. Wather you believe it or not, the attractor patterns from your malicious mind, is what keeps back human consciousness from eliminating evil.

Haha. So are you suggesting that if I just sit here and pretend that they aren't the primary cause, the crime will magically vanish? Do you think my notions are based on some white supremacist dogma? No. Statistics clearly map out crime by race. Not only do statistics conclude that minorities aren't always the "good" people you make them out to be, my personal experiences have only reinforced this irrefragable fact. I don't care what you believe the crime is a product of, it is going to continue to exist until you take off your PC blindfold and open your eyes.

No what i am suggesting is that if you raise your human consciousness, one level above what ever you encounter, what you think, say or do, you will help to change things for the better not worse.

Well, I'm not sure about the accuracy of this statement, but let's assume it is true...

While i did not make the statement, i will answer anyway. Not only do middlclass but i would say upperclass purchase the majority of the cocaine consumed. They do not belong to the class of people you attribute the problems to. If there was no buyer there is no seller. So blame yourself, unless your a poor immigrant.

Consider that Whites are over 70% of the US population. Consider that blacks are a mere 12% of the US population. Now, keep in mind that there is a higher percentage of crack addicts within the black race than there are White crack addicts within the White race. So with all of this being said, we can probably conclude that if the black race comprised 70% of the population and Whites were the 12%, there would be a significantly higher number of crack addicts in this country.

So now you want to pick on the Blacks, what happened to the Hispanics. I thought they were the problem. Hispanics are the major movement of immigration. You obiously are blided by your racist ideas.

This is ridiculous. So basically, you're saying that the level of crime is constant, regardless of the law? The higher the consequence, the lower the frequency of the crime. That is common sense. If we executed those who committed rape, or sexual assault(something we should do), there would be a hell of a lot less offenders.

I did not write this either but do agree with it. What it means, to me, is look at yourself in the mirror.

Your attitude is what holds mankind back from advancing. This is my last post on this disgusting thread.

 

[NIT14]

Multicultural Of, relating to, or including several cultures. In early America, being White was a prerequisite for citizenship, Yes this is called racism and it is morally illegal, today as it was then. Today all men are created equal, that is why a constitution was drawn to express that, and amendments over the years to express the wisdom, that man has learned since 1776.
Conquerers have been replaced with democracy. Racist ideas with wisdom of equality for all men.

Morally illegal? I'm sorry, but there is no such thing. Morality cannot be defined. It is not absolute. All men are not created equal. This is an obvious fact of nature. Each and every man is different in his own way. Equality is non-existent. The only equality that exists is equality in opportunity, and there is nothing wrong with that. In the beginning, the constitution had nothing to do with "diversity" or giving non-Whites "equal rights," or should I say special privileges.

Its special, because mostly you and your attitude have become extinct like the dinosaurs. Its special cause any man or women, of any race has the same oportunity, as you and I do, to all the good things in life, if they want to achieve them. Unfortunately, there still is countries in the world, where this is not so.

I'm very sorry to break it to you, but my ideas and my "attitude" are far from "extinct." Political correctness just happens to restrain them. Some of us don't care though. I never said there was anything wrong with equality in opportunity. I will tell you what is wrong though. Affirmative action is wrong. Uncontrolled immigration is wrong. Equal opportunity doesn't exist for WHITES today, if you haven't noticed. When it comes to college, or jobs, minorities almost always have the advantage when it comes to getting accepted or hired only because they aren't White. Tell me that's not wrong and you will be a hypocrite.

No what i am suggesting is that if you raise your human consciousness, one level above what ever you encounter, what you think, say or do, you will help to change things for the better not worse.

I don't think raising my "human consciousness" is going to magically make the local Mestizo gangs dissapear, or render them harmless for that matter. The threat exists whether you want to see it that way or not.

So now you want to pick on the Blacks, what happened to the Hispanics. I thought they were the problem. Hispanics are the major movement of immigration. You obiously are blided by your racist ideas.

Pick on them? Oh, that must be the new politically correct term for legitimately criticizing the black race. But, the Mestizo invasion is a much larger problem, yes. My "racist" ideas, eh? What is so "racist" about them, exactly? I'm only pointing out the realities of "diversity" and immigration.

 

[the_truth]

Despite the fact that seems to have nothing to do with the philosophy of science, it does elaborate mildly on abstract philosophy, which is correlated with scientific method..

Most people with non-bigotted anti-immigration sentiments are from Europe. Compared to the arable ancestral homelands of other cultures and dare I say races, Europe is relatively dilute and most europeans wish to maintain the low density of europe for the far future and to maintain their way of life.

As for bigotted anti-immigration sentiments, they are based purely on the merits of their ideas. Frankly, for a nation with lots of space and no real cultural reason to limit population growth, the only reason to prevent immigration would be to ensure that the nation's parts preserve it's sum.

 

[NIT14]

Most people with non-bigotted anti-immigration sentiments are from Europe. Compared to the arable ancestral homelands of other cultures and dare I say races, Europe is relatively dilute and most europeans wish to maintain the low density of europe for the far future and to maintain their way of life.

Maintaining our way of life is what opposition to immigration is all about. Whether you want to categorize it as "bigoted" or not, it is the same motive. All we desire is the preservation of our culture and people.

 

[rody084]

why does the US keep on *****ing about how mexicans are crossin into the US border and being all over california... when its the US who crossed into theirs!

 

[Dissident Dan]

rody makes a good point. California, Nevada, Texas, etc., even parts of Wyoming, I think, used to be under Spanish rule, so Anglos took that land from them.

Many of the anti-immigration sentiments expressed here rely on "might makes right" philosophy, which means that whatever happens is ok, because people had the might to make it happen, so you therefore cannot complain about what happens.

 

[NIT14]

why does the US keep on *****ing about how mexicans are crossin into the US border and being all over california... when its the US who crossed into theirs!

Before the Europeans arrived, I don't think a border even existed. There were only primitive tribes, not nearly as advanced as the European man. There's a big differece in occupying a land, and establishing a country. Europeans came to America and easily conquered it. They established and built a great country. Mestizos certainly did not build this country into what it is today.

California, Nevada, Texas, etc., even parts of Wyoming, I think, used to be under Spanish rule, so Anglos took that land from them.

Spanish and Mexican are two completely different things.

 

[ray b]

yes we took the land from mexico
but that doesnot mean we have to let them or anyone else take it back by illegal imigration today

I have no real problem with people who want to become american, only with what has happened to my home town, the first victom of the reconquesta,. the big problem is with people who are here but want to impose a 3rd world value system and culture just like they had at home and don't want to become americans I simply don't want to live in a 3rd world city were english is not nessiary and american values are passie
and the standard of living and wages are falling fast
block voting for corrupt leadership has resulted in nazi-cops who break more laws then they inforce

like superman I support truth justice and THE AMERICAN WAY and think all who DONOT should be deported

btw mexicans are not the problem in miami

 

[olde drunk]

what the hell is SOOO damn precious about the american way?? do we have a corner on class and culture?

i love the opportunities afforded here, but the american way sucks. we put more value on a 2nd home, car, tv etc, etc then we do on our neighbor's well being. now, please do not tell me i am wrong. i have seen this 'american effect' in process for too many years. our old neighborhoods (caring for our friends and relatives)are gone.

hell, we even pack our parents and grand parents off to boarding homes because we can afford to pay someone else to "care'.

three cheers for the american way! we lost the american way a couple of decades ago when possessions, power and wealth became more important than 'being real'.

i ain't got nuttin, and i am takin it ALL with me, haha,

 

[NIT14]

what the hell is SOOO damn precious about the american way?? do we have a corner on class and culture?

Perhaps you should move to Mexico. You obviously don't appreciate America for what it is, and you certainly seem to have no respect for the people who established and built this country. If you think that our "stealing" of this land was so bad, move to Mexico. You will quickly come back a new person.

i love the opportunities afforded here, but the american way sucks. we put more value on a 2nd home, car, tv etc, etc then we do on our neighbor's well being. now, please do not tell me i am wrong. i have seen this 'american effect' in process for too many years. our old neighborhoods (caring for our friends and relatives)are gone.

You're right, and you're also hypocritically wrong. We have lost much of our sense of respect and responsibility, but this has nothing to do with not being "nice" and "ethical" by notletting Mestizos come to contribute to the rotting of our country. It's not so much an economic rot as it is a general rotting of the quality of American life. The problem is that our people have become too materialistic. Many don't care about anything that isn't between their TVs and the shopping mall.

But you sit there and preach about the welfare of your "neighbors" and family, when at the same time you are inciting and condoning the destruction of their country and quality of life. It has nothing to do with material value.

we lost the american way a couple of decades ago when possessions, power and wealth became more important than 'being real'.

We lost the American way long ago when we put material gain over the well being of our people. When we allowed immigration from 3rd world, non-White nations, when our politicians became corrupt, when a parasitical, alien being took power, when integration was forced upon us, and when we have become so feminized that we no longer know the meaning of hard work and true patriotism.