Exercises for loosening joints

[DaveC426913]

TL;DR Summary

I am looking for a discipline that benefits joints, as opposed to weight-training, muscle-building or cardio exercises

I've crossed the threshold into 60 now, and my warranty has expired.
I'm OK muscle-wise and stuff - where I'm not OK is in the stiffness of my joints.
My shoulders in particular are stiffer than they ought to be, but my neck and hips are too.

I do not have arthritis, and I do not have pain (unless I over-torque my shoulders) but tasks like donning a sweater or looking over my shoulder elicit grunts and groans, as does getting up from a chair after a long while.

(I guess my hips and knees can't be that bad, since I routinely sit in the lotus position in my office chair - much more comfortable than feet-on-floor.)

I am looking for a regimen that will help me loosen my joints. I suspect yoga is the way to go, but that's me on the outside looking in; I'd prefer to hear from people having success.

 

[pinball1970]

TL;DR Summary: I am looking for a discipline that benefits joints, as opposed to weight-training, muscle-building or cardio exercises

I've crossed the threshold into 60 now, and my warranty has expired.
I'm OK muscle-wise and stuff - where I'm not OK is in the stiffness of my joints.
My shoulders in particular are stiffer than they ought to be, but my neck and hips are too.

I do not have arthritis, and I do not have pain (unless I over-torque my shoulders) but tasks like donning a sweater or looking over my shoulder elicit grunts and groans, as does getting up from a chair after a long while.

(I guess my hips and knees can't be that bad, since I routinely sit in the lotus position in my office chair - much more comfortable than feet-on-floor.)

I am looking for a regimen that will help me loosen my joints. I suspect yoga is the way to go, but that's me on the outside looking in; I'd prefer to hear from people having success.

Swimming is good for exercising without stress on your joints.

 

[pinball1970]

TL;DR Summary: I am looking for a discipline that benefits joints, as opposed to weight-training, muscle-building or cardio exercises

but tasks like donning a sweater or looking over my shoulder elicit grunts and groans, as does getting up from a chair after a long while.

What are you like stretching? One muscle at a time? It hurts a bit but it hurt in my 20s.

 

[PeroK]

TL;DR Summary: I am looking for a discipline that benefits joints, as opposed to weight-training, muscle-building or cardio exercises

I've crossed the threshold into 60 now, and my warranty has expired.
I'm OK muscle-wise and stuff - where I'm not OK is in the stiffness of my joints.
My shoulders in particular are stiffer than they ought to be, but my neck and hips are too.

I do not have arthritis, and I do not have pain (unless I over-torque my shoulders) but tasks like donning a sweater or looking over my shoulder elicit grunts and groans, as does getting up from a chair after a long while.

(I guess my hips and knees can't be that bad, since I routinely sit in the lotus position in my office chair - much more comfortable than feet-on-floor.)

I am looking for a regimen that will help me loosen my joints. I suspect yoga is the way to go, but that's me on the outside looking in; I'd prefer to hear from people having success.

One option is Body Balance, which is mainly dynamic yoga. The set routine (that changes every few months) has advantages over an ad hoc yoga class. Also, it's designed with options for all levels - so you don't end up trying the impossible.

https://www.lesmills.com/uk/workouts/group-fitness/bodybalance/

If your local gym doesn't offer classes, you can find routines on YouTube. This is a good starter, for example:



You can do as much of it as you are able to begin with.

 

[DaveC426913]

Right. Venue.
I will probably do this at home. Not looking for classes or pools. I mean, I might do a pool once a week, but not daily or semi-daily.

 

[jim mcnamara]

Consider chair yoga... asmy.org.au

All no cost or obligation.

In the US PT's (physical therapists) often train older patients in chair yoga as an enduring solution to problems like yours. Training takes a few weeks but usually requires insurance overage. I think you are in Canada... so I know close to nothing about insurance there.

 

[Steve in Oregon]

Consider Feldenkrais movement learning as a modality. For example, One practitioner's Youtube channel:
https://www.youtube.com/c/TaroIwamoto

 

[DaveC426913]

Consider chair yoga... asmy.org.au

Chair yoga? I'm not infirm...

In the US PT's (physical therapists) often train older patients in chair yoga as an enduring solution to problems like yours.

I need a PT? Isn't it just a sequence of movements? This seems to be one of the few things that one might be able to pick up from a Youtube video.



Apologies to all; I don't mean to sound like I'm denigrating your offers of help. I guess I thought I would just be getting a different kind of suggestions. Maybe that's why I've been stuck.

 

[Hornbein]

I don't have stiff joints. Are you sure it is the joints and not weak muscles? Everyone grows feeble with age. Exercise is important in old age, especially for shoulders as they are held together with muscle.

When I was young I could do 20 pullups without any training. Recently I was able to do but one. After training I can now do four.

The US is a good place to go to a physical therapist or gym to get an exercise program. I can't stand gyms or much in the way of routine so I do it myself, preferably outdoors.

Even it it truly is stiff joints, then AFAIK there is not much you can do aside from stretching and exercise. Some people take chondroitin but I'm sceptical as to whether that does any good.

 

[Hornbein]

I need a PT? Isn't it just a sequence of movements? This seems to be one of the few things that one might be able to pick up from a Youtube video.

Sure, it isn't rocket science. A PT is more targeted towards your weak spots and should be more complete. Youtube could be some doofus. Or maybe not. The important thing is that you do SOMETHING. Motivation and persistence is what matters.

 

[BillTre]

A roommate I had in grad school showed me how gymnasts increase their flexibility.
Flex a joint as far as you can.
Contract the stretched muscle in resistance in the position of extreme flexure.
Relax muscle.
Repeat.
You will be able to bnend your joint further.
This works with muscle limitations, not with problems with the joints.

This really works. I have used this method.

 

[berkeman]

A Physical Therapist PT is more for helping with injury repair strategies. A Personal Trainer PT is for learning how to stretch and exercise correctly so that you get improved range of motion and better athletic performance, while avoiding injury.

I know first hand that incorrect stretching can destabilize joints, so it's best to discuss stretching with a Personal Trainer. There are also some lifts that are bad for your joints (like doing deltoid lifts with dumbbells directly out to your sides with your hands in the pronate position). Our company used to have a Personal Trainer stop by our gym once a week for an hour group session with any employees that wanted to attend. He was full of great tips and exercise suggestions.

@DaveC426913 -- I'd recommend that you sign up for a couple sessions with a local Personal Trainer to discuss your goals and get some good (reliable, safe) stretching and exercise suggestions.

 

[Fra]

TL;DR Summary: I am looking for a discipline that benefits joints, as opposed to weight-training, muscle-building or cardio exercises

I've crossed the threshold into 60 now, and my warranty has expired.
I'm OK muscle-wise and stuff - where I'm not OK is in the stiffness of my joints.
My shoulders in particular are stiffer than they ought to be, but my neck and hips are too.

I do not have arthritis, and I do not have pain (unless I over-torque my shoulders) but tasks like donning a sweater or looking over my shoulder elicit grunts and groans, as does getting up from a chair after a long while.

(I guess my hips and knees can't be that bad, since I routinely sit in the lotus position in my office chair - much more comfortable than feet-on-floor.)

I am looking for a regimen that will help me loosen my joints. I suspect yoga is the way to go, but that's me on the outside looking in; I'd prefer to hear from people having success.

I noticed myself as having a some back issues and stiffness, that doing regular activity, that activates your system, and work the muscles and joints, seems to improve mobility and reduce perceived stiffness. I don't know the exact mechanism but regular activation of muscles that supports att the joints and warming them up (you need to get the pulse up and get warm) seems to give en effect that lasts at least 3 days. So regular activity 2-3 times a week I think helps.

My problem is that stuff like going to the gym or stuff that most people do, are so extremely boring and unsatisfactory that I simply don't do it regularly. I am not the sports guy either. So finding something that you really enjoy, was for me the key to make regularity happen.

What that is, will be personal, for me I found that Martial Arts is fun, that may be an idea if you can't bring yourself to goto yoga. I have a back issue so I have issues with the proper forms, but I focus more on free fighting +heavy bag work. IT may soun intimidating but its really fun and some beating also helps release endorphins. They key is to do it regularly but keep the intensity moderate. So work the joints regularly, but avoid overloading. We have people much older than you in our club.

In my experience, excercising your joints when then are warmed up, is much better than "cold stretching". This is why karate is good for me. It gives you a bit of both, if you take it easy.

/Fredrik

 

[dreamzeducation]

Hello,

I am glad to hear that you would like to take something for your joint health – much of the population suffers from joint stiffness at some point and not necessarily due to arthritis or severe pain. And while weight training and cardio activities also have an impact on joints, low-impact flexibility and mobility concepts are generally more specific for joints.

Yoga is indeed a very good option because it is a low impact exercise involving stretching, mobilisation of the joints and-balancing. Mechanically, people get relieved with stiffness at shoulder joint, neck and hips over an extended period. There are modified techniques like Hatha or Yin Yoga to greatly benefit from by the regular use as they incorporate holding postures key to flexibility of the joints. Specifically, Yin Yoga targets the connective tissues and is generally on the beneficial side of joint health.

Further, looking at Tai Chi and Pilates are also a good idea. Tai Chi involves cycling movements and co–ordinated breathing and these aspects are very beneficial to joints of the lower limbs such as the hip and knee joints. In a way, Pilates can also help joint health since it builds up the muscles around the joints giving them support without adding pressure to the joints themselves.

Just like with any sort of routine, it is best to start with low intensity for the joints to get used to comfortably. It’s good to know that you can still sit in lotus suggesting that the hips are good though not as great as they used to be which, given that most of your practices have been flexibility-based, means that a steady flexibility-focused practice could be incredibly beneficial for you.

Good luck for your joint health journey!

 

[Hornbein]

When Westerners say yoga they usually mean hatha yoga. There are several other types of yoga. Rajah yoga is meditation, karma yoga is doing good works, and so forth. Yin yoga is a recent variant of hatha yoga that emphasizes holding postures for a long time.

 

[Klystron]

Here are a few simple exercises I learned in physical therapy and practice daily, usually in the morning after a warm shower. I agree you should consult with physiology and kinematics experts

Lie on your back on your bed, floor mat or carpet. Relax. Extend both legs. Breath in and exhale. While exhaling, gently bring your left knee to your chest and lightly squeeze. Extend legs and relax. Breath and repeat with right knee. This loosens and lightly stretches you arms and shoulders, spine and legs. Repeat sequence (up to 30x).

In same position bend both legs until feet are flat. Extend both arms. Breath and exhale. Gently roll your legs together to your left while rotating both arms to the right, sort of like a ballet dancer. Stay relaxed. Switch sides, rotating legs to right and arms and shoulders to the left. Relax and repeat.

Lie on your stomach. Extend arms and legs as if swimming. Breath. On exhale gently lift your legs and arms off the bed/mat. Repeat. Often called Airplane pose.

Same position on stomach. Place hands flat under shoulders. Breath. On exhale gently lift torso slightly upward using arms. Hold for a few seconds with stomach flat. Sometimes called Cobra pose.

As always, never hold your breath. Move slowly and smoothly. Stop if painful.

 

[Laroxe]

It's worth considering that the stiffness that becomes more troublesome as we age is much more likely to be due to changes in the muscles and tendons than the actual joint structure, arthritis may need slightly different approaches. I'm a big fan of Tai Chi but to start you would really need to attend a class, you need the feedback to get the movements right, I suspect the same would apply to yoga but in Tai Chi there seems to be a greater emphasis on how we move rather than on stretching or position.

While Tia Chi is based on the martial arts it is also considered to be important in maintaining health, it follows Taoist principles and it incorporates some ideas from Qigong and acupuncture (though without the needles). It is very popular in China as a way of maintaining health as we age and is considered a way to extend the lifespan, though the health beliefs that underpin its use can seem a bit strange.

 

[pinball1970]

TL;DR Summary: I am looking for a discipline that benefits joints, as opposed to weight-training, muscle-building or cardio exercises

I've crossed the threshold into 60 now, and my warranty has expired.
I'm OK muscle-wise and stuff - where I'm not OK is in the stiffness of my joints.
My shoulders in particular are stiffer than they ought to be, but my neck and hips are too.

I do not have arthritis, and I do not have pain (unless I over-torque my shoulders) but tasks like donning a sweater or looking over my shoulder elicit grunts and groans, as does getting up from a chair after a long while.

(I guess my hips and knees can't be that bad, since I routinely sit in the lotus position in my office chair - much more comfortable than feet-on-floor.)

I am looking for a regimen that will help me loosen my joints. I suspect yoga is the way to go, but that's me on the outside looking in; I'd prefer to hear from people having success.

What about walking? At least as a supplement to other exercise.

Benefits/ plus side
It's free.
You do not need any kit, hall rental or classes.
Your gear is a decent pair of walking boots and a rucksack sack, you probably already have this.
Once you are out in the open away from the city the quiet hits you, perfect for stress release.

My recommendations?

(If you have done long country walks before you will be aware)

Do not walk alone, a friend who knows the areas, safety, precautions etc.
Start off fairly short, a few miles test the water.
Flat walks will not challenge you, a few ups and downs will be great for fitness.
Take care with ramblers, they can stop, start, admire the view,have a chat, decide to have a sandwich when you are keen to get going.

 

[DaveC426913]

What about walking?

My legs are in relatively good shape, at least compared to my shoulders, back and neck.

If I'm going to choose an exercise, it behooves me to choose one that emphasizes upper body exercise over lower body exercise. Otherwise I'll have the legs of a 40 year old and the torso of a 60 year old.

I used to bike. A lot, when I was young. I bought a bike last year because we have a whole bunch of woodland trails within biking distance in our new home.

Unfortunately, on my first outing (technically, zeroeth outing) I didn't even make it out of the driveway. A poorly positioned kickstand (I am left-bodied) sent me right over the handlebars onto my face.

(It wasn't a big deal, just a bloody eyebrow, but before I could fully recover, I came down with a nasty virus that sent me to the hospital with debilitating vertigo. I'm fine but now it's late in the season.)

My concern about biking though, is that it will strengthen my legs while stiffening my back and especially my neck and shoulders, so... hmm

 

[berkeman]

I bought a bike last year because we have a whole bunch of woodland trails within biking distance in our new home.

My concern about biking though, is that it will strengthen my legs while stiffening my back and especially my neck and shoulders, so...

It depends on what kind of trails you ride. Since you mention woodland trails, I'm assuming that you have a MTB now, right? With a MTB you have the option of riding tight, technical trails, which have you standing and moving all around on the bike. Your arms and back and neck will definitely get some exercise. What kind of trails do you have available for you? (And please always wear your helmet; I do. )

Downhill:

Uphill:

 

[DaveC426913]

It depends on what kind of trails you ride. Since you mention woodland trails, I'm assuming that you have a MTB now, right?

Its not the ten speed I'm used to. Has straight handle bars, 2 inch tires.

It's much less stable than I'm used to. It feels like the wheel is going to go cockeyed at any moment.

I think that's the way these bikes are today. The forks are canted forward, but I suspect the axis is not as raked back as I'm used to.

I feel like I'm riding on a unicycle.

With a MTB you have the option of riding tight, technical trails, which have you standing and moving all around on the bike. Your arms and back and neck will definitely get some exercise.

Back, yes. Neck, no.

Big problem with biking is you have to hunch over and hold your neck up to see. Very stiff. Worst possible thing for neck. Totally counterproductive

What kind of trails do you have available for you?

Probably everything. I live spitting distance from "The Mountain" which is really just the Niagara Escarpment. And if that not enough, I can just drive anywhere that takes my fancy.

I will probably stick to flat stuff for now. Have to build up my skilz n strength. Don't want to overdo it and injure myself.

(And please always wear your helmet; I do. )

You betcha!

If I wasn't convinced beforehand (I was, but), that first (zeroeth) outing drove home the point. I would have cracked my skull wide open on the pavement without it.

 

[Fra]

If I'm going to choose an exercise, it behooves me to choose one that emphasizes upper body exercise over lower body exercise. Otherwise I'll have the legs of a 40 year old and the torso of a 60 year old.

Depending on the level of exercise you want, i think from mild tai chi movements to some more direct MA would be great.

Chinese MA tend to have more circular movements than Japanese MA thay has more straight techniques. Circular movement is milder on joints.

Mild to harder

1. Tai chi

2. Do som chineese MA katas that emphasise upper body, like blocks, strikes etc. But keep power down. As the movement have a meaning in terms of simulated combat makes it less boring to me at least. As you dont focus on the "exercise" you focus on the invisible opponent.

3.You can also do these movements against a target. Like heavy bag or similar. You choose how much power you put in. If at home you could get a smaller punching bag perhaps.

4. Pushups is good upper body work too. But doing too many too often may overlaod the joints. But as you gain strength it helps. This you do at home.grip training also helps the arms.

I do 3+4 myself 2-3 times a week and it helps. And you can easily how much of it you so. There are lots pf videos to be inspired by on alll this. I also train my legs less, because my my back. So running makes it worse. So i also put most focus on upper body work, and use legs only for kicking below waist. So i adapt this all to my needs and issues.

/Fredrik

 

[berkeman]

Facebook is amazing sometimes. I hope this helps you Dave.

 

[Laroxe]

There are of course lots of supplements that people use for problems in their joints and muscles the popular one's seem to be fish Oils, Curcumin, Glucosamine & Chondroitin but there are lots. It's still debated how much they help but some people clearly find them useful. With fish oils its best to avoid doses over 1g per day there have been some potential side effects identified, with Curcumin which usually sold as a turmeric concentrate and it needs to be a concentrate with added black pepper to aid absorption.

These are all suggested to be anti-inflammatory and some possibly anti-oxidant, they all have some support from the identification of potential physiological effects, but clinical evidence of effectiveness is less clear. Still, they may be worth a try, you probably need to take them for around a month before deciding whether to continue. Taking traditional anti-inflammatory drugs is more likely to cause side effects and only worthwhile if the symptoms are more severe.

Exercise is potentially just as complicated, with problems around muscle & tendon stiffness the idea is to move slowly to the point of feeling a mild stretch without discomfort and holding that position for a short while. You need to avoid the sort of serious stretching used in training or bouncing at the point of maximum stretch, these things often cause some trauma to the muscles and adding small amounts of scar tissue will simply increase the rate of stiffening.

Keeping the area warm during and after exercise may also help. With the legs, some resistance can be useful, its important in the control of bone mineralisation, I don't know how important this might be around the shoulders. Remember that the neck is also important for the comfort of the muscles around the shoulders, even the thickness of your pillows can have a big effect, that was something that effected my muscles and was improved by only using one pillow rather than two.

 

[pinball1970]

TL;DR Summary: I am looking for a discipline that benefits joints, as opposed to weight-training, muscle-building or cardio exercises

I've crossed the threshold into 60 now, and my warranty has expired.
I'm OK muscle-wise and stuff - where I'm not OK is in the stiffness of my joints.
My shoulders in particular are stiffer than they ought to be, but my neck and hips are too.

If you want to change something about your physique/torso you have do do more than look at upper body exercises and target one area.


A general all over exercise like walking is using all of your abdomen and back not just legs.
Diet is as important as exercise, cut back on carbs, smaller portions.
(I was going to start a thread a few weeks ago on this but this is just as relevant.)
We are similar ages and I need to improve my fitness, BMI and BP.
If I am lighter and fitter my lungs work better too.

Set yourself targets, keep charts, log all the data, harder if you work full time but you can incorporate that, make it a project!

Take precautions, see your GP FIRST and make sure you are not going to do anything that will exacerbate existing injuries or joint pathologies.

I will leave it here because this is personal, not quite PF and more bloggy but by all means PM/DM me.

NB: On the work thing, three ladies have joined a gym and go at lunchtime. Exercise after is hard after work, during work it can be motivating. I am bobbing along with them next week.

 

[DaveC426913]

Every day we're in the office, my whole team goes for a walk around the campus at 330. Maybe I should join them.

The reason I haven't to-date is because that is the time when I am most productive. When all the meetings and other interrruptions are done and all my correspondence is done and I've finally organized everything, and I can settle in for a few hours of work where I can engage both halves of my brain.

 

[Fra]

Every day we're in the office, my whole team goes for a walk around the campus at 330. Maybe I should join them.

The reason I haven't to-date is because that is the time when I am most productive. When all the meetings and other interrruptions are done and all my correspondence is done and I've finally organized everything, and I can settle in for a few hours of work where I can engage both halves of my brain.

Sounds like you are not motivated to walk, because you have more interesting things to do. I recognize this, I can not bring myself to "excercise" for not particular reason. It is boring, and a waste of time - or it's how I feel!

This is why finding some fun, where the "excercise" or "moving my joints" are is and unavoidable "side effect" of something that motivates you is the only think that works for me.

For me as beeing analytical and a thinker more than an athlete, the MA combat systems is full of fun motivators and even gaming applications, where you take calculated risks with presumed higher benefit (in a statistical sensel) and you can "induce" expectations into your opponent an thereby changing their behaviour! It's almost like qbist quantum interactions, and game of expectations, this is my way of tricking myself into excercise. When studying MA I also think it's much like a an electron battling the nucles or whatever. They both need to preserve their own integrity and take and opportunites.

/Fredrik

 

[Klystron]

This thread is replete with good exercise advice. Every suggested activity -- bikes and exercycles, walking and hiking, swimming, yoga*, and martial arts** -- begins with simple stretches to prepare your body and help avoid pain and injury. Here are a few more stretches that require no equipment:

Standing or seated upright, extend your non-dominant arm straight forward from shoulder. Place (hook) opposite arm underneath and around extended upper arm between shoulder and elbow. Gently pull extended arm toward your center until you feel some release. As usual inhale on extension and exhale on tension. Do not hold breath.

Repeat 5-10 reps then alternate arms. Extend dominant. Hook and pull with opposite arm. Slightly more advanced technique: bend extended arm at elbow horizontal across your chest. Gently pull with opposite arm. Alternate after 5-10 reps.

More advanced stretch: extend arm and hook with opposite, wrist just above and outside elbow joint. Bend elbow as above then grasp opposite shoulder as if hugging yourself. Alternate arms after a few reps. With practice you can touch your spine and 'walk' fingers across back.

Most advanced: rotate the hooking arm as you gently stretch beginning with wrist (and hand) facing elbow, ending with wrist facing out. This stretch very close to martial arts grapple technique where the rotation slides arm against 'opponent' to avoid capture. IOW grapple gently with yourself. I often do this stretch while watching movies, rotating arms and wrists to stay loose.

You can continue these basic shoulder stretches with various arm positions such as bending first arm vertically at elbow, placing opposite wrist underneath and between shoulder and elbow, pulling arm across chest. Most advanced: hold stretch and slowly raise and lower vertical arm. Actually these exercises work both shoulders and arms simultaneously in different directions.

These stretches are very common before any activity mentioned above. You can see swimmers performing this stretch before entering water, martial artists before a bout, bikers while seated on stationary bike, and computer workers any old time you feel stiff.

* I learned Hatha yoga as a child and lyengar yoga in college. The latter form includes hatha asanas and breathing adding strong balanced movements. Emphasis on strength and flexibility.

** My aging bod prefers wing chun originally taught by Buddhist nuns. Popularized by actors Donnie Yee and Bruce Lee from his teacher Ip Man who, legand has it, learned from his wife Cheung Wing-sing.

 

[morrobay]

TL;DR Summary: I am looking for a discipline that benefits joints, as opposed to weight-training, muscle-building or cardio exercises

I've crossed the threshold into 60 now, and my warranty has expired.
I'm OK muscle-wise and stuff - where I'm not OK is in the stiffness of my joints.
My shoulders in particular are stiffer than they ought to be, but my neck and hips are too.

I do not have arthritis, and I do not have pain (unless I over-torque my shoulders) but tasks like donning a sweater or looking over my shoulder elicit grunts and groans, as does getting up from a chair after a long while.

As others here have said joint stiffness is really more about the muscles. And the state of the muscles is related to your posture. So getting correct posture should be done before anything else .Actually with correct posture these joint/muscle issues can take care of themselves . You can check your posture by standing back flat against a wall with palms out at shoulders. Wall contact points are heels. tail bone, and back of head. If you don't feel any pulling good. Now slowly raise hands sliding palms out , up the wall as far as you can. You should feel that.Repeat this often , can be done with heating pad. This is a self posture correction. If the posture is bad then the muscles are slacked on one side and over stressed on the other side producing stiffness/discomfort. Thats my issue now: bad posture and I'm working on it.

 

[DaveC426913]

As others here have said joint stiffness is really more about the muscles. And the state of the muscles is related to your posture. So getting correct posture should be done before anything else .

I think I have had terrible posture since forever. I did not know that, forever ago; I always wondered why my dad once told me he was going to put me in a brace to straighten my shoulders up. I didn't know what he was talking about.

No doctor or friend has ever mentioned it to me.

Over the decades it has just become part of my life that seats - and especially head rests - never fit me. I have to push my head so far back if feels like I'm gonna choke - either that or I'm staring at the ceiling. It just never occurred to me that the rest of the world might have designed seats and head rests to be comfortable.

 

[DaveC426913]

You can check your posture by standing back flat against a wall with palms out at shoulders. Wall contact points are heels. tail bone, and back of head. If you don't feel any pulling good. Now slowly raise hands sliding palms up the wall as far as you can. You should feel that

Update:

With heels and tailbone against the wall, I can just barely touch my head to the wall. It is uncomfortable, akin to any head rest.

I can touch the backs of my hands to the wall at shoulder height, but only a fair bit of discomfort at my shoulders.

While keeping my hands in contact with the wall, I am unable to raise my arms higher than my head, at least not without a great deal of pain.

 

[morrobay]

Yes this you must do often. You can start this program first just with the contact points all against the wall . You can force this since that is the correcting mechanism. Then after you have all the points on the wall with minimum pulling . The
next phase is sliding back of hands up against the wall. Take as long as it take for phase one. Ie you are working against years of incorrect posture. So this is a soft tissue situation and controllable.

 

[berkeman]

Thread closed temporarily for Moderation...

 

[berkeman]

There has been too much medical-type advice given in this thread, so it needs to remain closed.

Dave -- please do talk to a local Physical Therapist or Personal Trainer to discuss your best ways forward.