Experimental nucleon form factors from electron-nucleus scattering

[Yuen]

TL;DR Summary

What are world data on electron-nucleus scattering?

I am looking for experimental nucleon form factors from electron-nucleus scattering. Is there any compliations or tables?

In 'The proton charge radius ', H. Gao and M. Vanderhaeghen, Rev. Mod. Phys. 94, 015002 (2022), p. 24, there is 'world data on the proton and also the neutron'.
In 'Form Factors and Radii of Light Nuclei', Sick, I., Workshop on the Determination of the Fundamental Constants, Sep 2015 , JOURNAL OF PHYSICAL AND CHEMICAL REFERENCE DATA 44 (3), there is 'world data on electron-nucleus scattering''.
What are these world data?

Could someone please give me the answer, and the references? Thanks.

 

[ohwilleke]

One of the "go to" introductory references, which if it doesn't provide you the answer will at least point you in the right direction, is the open access 194 page "Handbook of perturbative QCD", which is mostly devoted to Parton Distribution Functions and Form Factors. This link at a different page of the same website also has material and tools that ought to be helpful and close to on point.

 

[Yuen]

Thanks ohwilleke for the informations. I have looked at the book "Handbook of perturbative QCD".

I am looking for experimental charge and magnetic form factors from the differential elastic scattering cross section for all stable and unstable nuclei. Isotopes are included. High energy and inelastic scattering are not included.

These form factors are basic experimental data in nuclear physics. I found figures in articles by I. Sick, T. W. Donnelly, and others. I look for more. I expect that there are tables and figures for all nuclei, including isotopes. It will be even better, if we supply the value of ɵ the absolute value of the form factor F(ɵ) is the immediate output. From theses form factors, we can then obtain the charge densities and mass densities for all nuclei. These densities will be useful for nuclear theories.

Thanks ohwilleke again for being so helpful.

 

[ohwilleke]

I expect that there are tables and figures for all nuclei, including isotopes. It will be even better, if we supply the value of ɵ the absolute value of the form factor F(ɵ) is the immediate output.

The data (or a lot of it anyway, there are probably some isotopes for which there is no data) is out there.

But, I am not optimistic that the tables and figures that you expect exist that compile that data comprehensively, all in one place, in an organized format, for all isotopes, actually do exist. Lots of resources that should exist do not actually exist. I wouldn't be surprised if there is not a single comprehensive source comparable to the Particle Data Group (which doesn't have that data).

This information is more likely to be spread over multiple publications, none of which has all of the data you are looking for in one place.

But, I'm not omniscient either and maybe there are sources that I don't know about. I don't have accounts or academic affiliations that allow me to get into the details of some of the databases I link below to check what they have, but you might. Here are some suggestions for other ways you can find what you are trying to find:

* The references in articles that cite to this data if you follow them link by link back to their true original sources (also consider emailing authors of the papers you have found such as I. Sick and T. W. Donnelly; they don't get a lot of "fan mail" from the rare people who are actually interested in a topic that is at the heart of their academic specialty and are often happy to answer quick questions);
* the Journal of Physical and Chemical Reference Data might have helpful articles that you can find using the journal's search function (you can then use arXiv to get open access versions);
* the CRC Handbook of Chemistry and Physics - this didn't have this data twenty years or so ago when I bought my copy in dead tree form as a younger man (I'm now in my 50s), but it might have it now and it would be worth checking;
* the IAEA LiveChart of Nuclides;
* the Karlsruhe Nuclide Chart and some related articles listed at that link;
* the JAEA Tables of Nuclear Data;
* some of the sources cited in the references listed Wikipedia article on the issue;
* some of the sources cited in the references listed in the Scholarpedia article on the issue (you might also consider emailing the author of that article to ask);
* there is a review of the literature on nuclear form factor data at J Arrington et al., 34 J. Phys. G: Nucl. Part. Phys. S23 (2007) DOI 10.1088/0954-3899/34/7/S03 and it is possible that if you did a search of papers published by the same authors that they have since then updated their article;
* there is another literature review, also from 2007, which doesn't have a table itself, but has a wealth of relevant citations, which can be found here (open access pdf here).

Thinking positively, if my intuition is right and what you are looking for isn't out there all in one place, you could put together a scientific journal article compiling all of the available data in one place yourself, in an easy to use format, which would simply take a lot of literature review. Both arXiv (presumably in the nucl-ex category), and Google Scholar would be good tools to look for those papers.

An article like that would easily pass peer review and get published, and would subsequently receive a great many citations, which would greatly increase your prestige as a widely cited scientist. The Table of Isotopes at this link doesn't appear to have the data you are looking for, either, but would provide a nice template for putting the data that you do find from other sources in one place if you chose to take on this task.

 

[Yuen]

Thanks ohwilleke for the information and suggestions. As the form factors are basic experimental data, I do expect that these tables and figures exist. I am surprised if they do not exist.
I have looked at some articles and obtain form factor figures. For all nuclei, including isotopes, I hope many people can 'put together a scientific journal article compiling all of the available data in one place , in an easy to use format'. Such a task requires the work of many people!
Thanks again.

 

[Yuen]

I also don't have accounts or academic affiliations.

 

[Vanadium 50]

My experience is that "other people should do more work to make my life easier" is seldom effective.

 

[Yuen]

Thanks Vanadium 50. I agree.

 

[Yuen]

'put together a scientific journal article compiling all of the available data in one place , in an easy to use format' is simple and straightforward. It is just routine work and very time consuming. We can use AI such as chatbot to look at all articles in physics journals. Search for nucleus, tables and figures for form factors. In a short time, AI will provide the result. If, for one nucleus, there are two articles, AI will choose the best answer. In this way, a compilation of form factors can be obtained. Then, if we supply the value of ɵ, AI will give the immediate output, the absolute value of the form factor F(ɵ).

 

[Vanadium 50]

Then put this together and publish it. What's stopping you?

 

[berkeman]

'put together a scientific journal article compiling all of the available data in one place , in an easy to use format' is simple and straightforward. It is just routine work and very time consuming. We can use AI such as chatbot to look at all articles in physics journals. Search for nucleus, tables and figures for form factors. In a short time, AI will provide the result. If, for one nucleus, there are two articles, AI will choose the best answer. In this way, a compilation of form factors can be obtained. Then, if we supply the value of ɵ, AI will give the immediate output, the absolute value of the form factor F(ɵ).

Is it just me, or does this reply looks like it was composed by an AI chatbot?

 

[Yuen]

Thanks berkeman for the comment. This reply is not composed by an AI chatbot. I am a real person, and the reply is composed by me. When I think about the reply, I just wonder why such a simple approach is not adopted by any person; the compilation obtained is so basic and important in nuclear physics.

 

[Yuen]

Vanadium 50 said
Then put this together and publish it. What's stopping you?

To answer this question, in fact, I do not know AI; I have not used chatbot. I do not have any
academic affiliation, and no financial support.

 

[Vanadium 50]

This reply is not composed by an AI chatbot

But isn't that exactly what we'd expect a chatbot to say?

Seriously, if you think there is a need, go ahead and consolidate this information and publish it as a review article. Who's stopping you?

 

[Yuen]

Thanks vanhees71

 

[Yuen]

Thanks berkeman and vanhees71

 

[Vanadium 50]

I like @vanhees71 , He's a smart guy. I'm not sure where he participated on this thread, though.

 

[Yuen]

Thanks ohwilleke, berkeman and Vanadium 50

 

[Yuen]

Thanks malawi_glenn

 

[Yuen]

Thanks PeroK

 

[Yuen]

ohwilleke said
'An article like that would easily pass peer review and get published, and would subsequently receive a great many citations, which would greatly increase your prestige as a widely cited scientist'.

If a graduate student completes such an article. Can this be used as a thesis for a M.Sc. degree or Ph.D. degree?

 

[Vanadium 50]

Probably not, as it is not original work. It's collecting other people's work.

 

[Yuen]

Thanks Vanadium 50

 

[Yuen]

Including new experimental results, the article can be updated annually. This will be important contribution to nuclear physics.

 

[Vanadium 50]

Like I said, if you think this is a good idea, go ahead. Nothing is stopping you.

 

[Yuen]

Thanks Vanadium 50. As I have explained in above, I do not go ahead.

 

[Vanadium 50]

Your choice. But you will find that "somebody should do this, and keep it updated annually, so I can use it" tends not to be a very effective argument.

 

[Yuen]

Thanks Vanadium 50. Yes. I agree

 

[Yuen]

Thanks 1 other person

 

[Yuen]

Thanks You