Explaining how the Higgs fields gives particles mass

[Stevexyz]

TL;DR Summary

Physicists say the Higgs Field is like syrup and slows particles down from the speed of light.

Physicists say the Higgs Field is like syrup and slows particles down from the speed of light. Wouldn’t it be easier and more correct to say there are no particles, just fields, and the strength of the coupling of the electron, photon, quark etc. fields with the Higgs field determines their speed. This variation in speed has the same effect as inertial mass and due to the equivalence principle is the same as gravitational mass?

 

[malawi_glenn]

Summary: Physicists say the Higgs Field is like syrup and slows particles down from the speed of light.

Physicists say the Higgs Field is like syrup and slows particles down from the speed of light.

Physicists say loads of wacky things in popular science. The purpose is to provide some kind of story which is totally not a lie, so that tax payers and politicians are willing to fund research. Particle physics is not cheap!

Anyway, would be nice if you provide references to your statement.

Now explain "coupling betweens fields" in a popular science manner, good luck

 

[Stevexyz]

Thanks for your reply. I have no reference for my statement. Just an assertion. Rather than using "syrup", why not just say fields interact (couple) with different strengths. This would also explain dark matter. Normal matter couples with both electromagnetic and Higgs fields. Dark matter only couples with the Higgs field. Also, is there anything wrong in saying the Higgs mechanism appears to give particles inertia rather than mass directly?

 

[malawi_glenn]

This would also explain dark matter. Normal matter couples with both electromagnetic and Higgs fields. Dark matter only couples with the Higgs field. Also, is there anything wrong in saying the Higgs mechanism appears to give particles inertia rather than mass directly?

Elaborate on "would also explain dark matter". There is no explanation there. Furthermore, particles can aqcuire mass without higgs mechanism too. Note that more than 99% of the mass of the proton for instance is not due to higgs mechanism. Anyway, dark matter is another topic for another thread

Inertia is an old concept, we do not talk about it so much anymore

Physicsists do not use syrup but I guess some do use that as some poor kind of analogy for popular science purposes. If you want to read about the higgs mechanism how physicsist thinks about it and Calculate with it, I can give you some professional references

 

[Stevexyz]

Hi Dr Malawi, What do you mean by inertia is an old concept. Isn't inertia a fundamental quality described by the equivalence principle, that states gravitational and inertial forces are indistinguishable?
By "explaining" Higgs by coupling or the lack of coupling suggests trying to observe dark matter is a waste of time as there is no "weakly interacting field" to calculate.
Thanks for the discussion

 

[malawi_glenn]

Hi Dr Malawi, What do you mean by inertia is an old concept. Isn't inertia a fundamental quality described by the equivalence principle, that states gravitational and inertial forces are indistinguishable?

Still an old concept. GR is more than 100 y old. The concept of mass in particle physics is something else. Masses in particle physics are also said to "run" with energy scale https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pole_mass

 

[Stevexyz]

Could it be that "explaining" Higgs by the coupling or the lack of coupling of fields suggests trying to observe dark matter (mass but no electromagnetic force) is a waste of time as there is no "weakly interacting field" to calculate?

 

[malawi_glenn]

I think you need / can start a new thread about dark matter candidates, it is a very broad field of research. There are many dark matter models, in some which those particles interact directly via the Higgs boson
https://home.cern/news/news/physics/atlas-probes-dark-matter-using-higgs-boson The signature would be Higgs -> nothing (there would be missing energy in the detector, similarly as we discover neutrions via indirect methods)

 

[Vanadium 50]

The A-level answer is that the Higgs couples left and right-handed Weyl fields. But I suspect you want an I-level or B-level answer.

 

[Stevexyz]

Hi Vanadium 50, I am looking for an advanced answer - but only on whether the concept is sound - not on how to calculate it - at this stage. Thanks

 

[malawi_glenn]

Hi Vanadium 50, I am looking for an advanced answer - but only on whether the concept is sound - not on how to calculate it - at this stage. Thanks

Then it is not an advanced level if you do not intend to know how to calculate... advanced means what it means - at the level it is supposed to be understood - how physicsists actually thinks about it.

Page 532: http://web.physics.ucsb.edu/~mark/ms-qft-DRAFT.pdf if you want to read the nifty details

 

[Stevexyz]

Hi,
I am also keen to grasp a very basic understanding the relationship between mass and inertia.
Thanks
Steve

 

[malawi_glenn]

Hi,
I am also keen to grasp a very basic understanding the relationship between mass and inertia.
Thanks
Steve

There is a quite recent thread about it in the classical physics section. This is a completely different question than in the op.

I can tell you this though, particle physics does deal with gravity (yet) so inertia is not in the realm of particle physics.

 

[Vanadium 50]

but only on whether the concept is sound

Your personal theory? It's not.

 

[Stevexyz]

Please give a link to where this theory has already been discussed. Thanks

 

[malawi_glenn]

Please give a link to where this theory has already been discussed. Thanks

What theory?

 

[berkeman]

Summary: Physicists say the Higgs Field is like syrup and slows particles down from the speed of light.

Physicists say the Higgs Field is like syrup and slows particles down from the speed of light. Wouldn’t it be easier and more correct to say there are no particles, just fields, and the strength of the coupling of the electron, photon, quark etc. fields with the Higgs field determines their speed. This variation in speed has the same effect as inertial mass and due to the equivalence principle is the same as gravitational mass?

Please give a link to where this theory has already been discussed. Thanks

No, that's not how things work at PF. If you want to discuss a new concept, YOU need to post the valid links to peer-reviewed articles to start your thread. You don't get to throw out your personal theory and ask others to find links to articles to support your ideas.

Thread is locked. Check your PMs. Have a nice day.