Exploring Instantaneous Reactions: Debunking the Myth of Infinite Speed

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In summary: Deepak K Kapur , I find your line of questioning a bit bewildering. In your OP you had already somewhat answered your own question, in that anything truly "instantaneous" would imply infinite speeds. I am assuming here you are aware of Einstein's relativity and its statement that nothing can go faster than the speed of light. As such, it is evident that no reaction can be truly instantaneous.In summary, chemical reactions cannot happen instantaneously as they are bound by chemical kinetics and the laws of thermodynamics. While there may be processes that occur in zero time, they do not involve speed in the same sense as motion does and cannot be considered truly instantaneous.
  • #1
Deepak K Kapur
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Do instantaneous Reactions happen at infinite speed?
 
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  • #2
Deepak K Kapur said:
Do instantaneous Reactions happen at infinite speed?
Define "instantaneous reaction"
 
  • #3
phinds said:
Define "instantaneous reaction"

E.g. when an acid reacts with a base...
 
  • #4
Deepak K Kapur said:
E.g. when an acid reacts with a base...
What makes you call that "instantaneous"?

If one pours an acid into a base, time will elapse before all the acid is poured in. And time will elapse while the acid that is poured in mixes with the base.
 
  • #5
jbriggs444 said:
What makes you call that "instantaneous"?

If one pours an acid into a base, time will elapse before all the acid is poured in. And time will elapse while the acid that is poured in mixes with the base.

Lol... I mean when an acid molecule reacts with a base molecule...
 
  • #6
Deepak K Kapur said:
E.g. when an acid reacts with a base...
Well, if that is your definition of "instantaneous reaction" (a definition which makes no sense to me) then obviously it does not happen with infinite speed. Since your definition of "instantaneous reaction" is so wrong, perhaps you also have something in mind for "infinite speed" that is also different than what is normally mean by that phrase.
 
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  • #7
phinds said:
Well, if that is your definition of "instantaneous reaction" (a definition which makes no sense to me) then obviously it does not happen with infinite speed. Since your definition of "instantaneous reaction" is so wrong, perhaps you also have something in mind for "infinite speed" that is also different than what is normally mean by that phrase.

Why don't you provide an exact definition of an instantaneous reaction..
 
  • #8
Deepak K Kapur said:
Why don't you provide an exact definition of an instantaneous reaction..
That is not how it works here. If YOU use a term then YOU are responsible for stating your understanding of what it means, preferably with citations if necessary. You can't just throw out some term and then expect me to define it.
 
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One reference in this vein is "The Endochronic Properties of Resublimated Thiotimoline, I Asimov, Astounding SF, March 1948".

Tongue firmly in cheek, but Asimov does dot his i's and cross his t's, providing a relevant definition of reaction speed...

Where the physical characteristics of two given compounds - particularly the degree of subdivision of the material - are equal, then the time of solution - expressed in seconds per gram of material per milli-liter of solvent [...]
 
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  • #10
Deepak K Kapur said:
Do instantaneous Reactions happen at infinite speed?
Also, what do you mean by "speed"? I know it as distance over time. Where's your distance? Or do you mean reaction rate (moles per second or something)?
 
  • #11
Even for the most rapid chemical reactions, there is chemical kinetics involved. So, no, chemical reactions do not occur instantaneously.
 
  • #12
In an attempt to maybe salvage an interesting discussion in this thread, what could be interested to talk about is for example the change in an electron's binding when two atoms merge into a molecule, and thus an electron is actually part of both shells. I guess in the end the answer is "the wave equation evolves from one state to another", but what are the time scales involved, and how does this evolution look like?
 
  • #13
Thanks everybody for the answers...

Actually, I think I was not able to express myself properly nor was able to provide a good example...

I want to say that 'when there is/are sufficient cause(s), the effect is bound to happen necessarily... Isn't this instantaneous?

For example in an entangled pair, a change in one particle is instantaneously reflected in the other... Isn't this infinite speed?

Can anybody provide me good examples of instantaneous Reactions?

Thanks
 
  • #14
Deepak K Kapur said:
I want to say that 'when there is/are sufficient cause(s), the effect is bound to happen necessarily... Isn't this instantaneous
Ok, this is called a spontaneous process not an instantaneous process.
Deepak K Kapur said:
For example in an entangled pair, a change in one particle is instantaneously reflected in the other... Isn't this infinite speed?
This is quantum mechanics not chemistry. Regardless, quantum entanglement doesn't actually transmit information (as far as we know), so nothing is actually traveling at any speed.
Deepak K Kapur said:
Can anybody provide me good examples of instantaneous Reactions?
A spontaneous reaction happens when the change in the Gibbs free energy of a system is negative and is dependent on the change in enthalpy, entropy, and temperature.

Check out this site for more on this topic. http://www.chem.tamu.edu/class/fyp/stone/tutorialnotefiles/thermo/gibbs.htm
 
  • #15
NFuller said:
Ok, this is called a spontaneous process not an instantaneous process.

This is quantum mechanics not chemistry. Regardless, quantum entanglement doesn't actually transmit information (as far as we know), so nothing is actually traveling at any speed.

A spontaneous reaction happens when the change in the Gibbs free energy of a system is negative and is dependent on the change in enthalpy, entropy, and temperature.

Check out this site for more on this topic. http://www.chem.tamu.edu/class/fyp/stone/tutorialnotefiles/thermo/gibbs.htm

Do you want to say that there is nothing like 'instantaneous reaction'...
 
  • #16
Deepak K Kapur said:
Do you want to say that there is nothing like 'instantaneous reaction'...
Well, no process can really happen instantaneously.
 
  • #17
@Deepak K Kapur , I find your line of questioning a bit bewildering. In your OP you had already somewhat answered your own question, in that anything truly "instantaneous" would imply infinite speeds. I am assuming here you are aware of Einstein's relativity and its statement that nothing can go faster than the speed of light. As such, it is evident that no reaction can be truly instantaneous.
 
  • #18
Deepak K Kapur said:
For example in an entangled pair, a change in one particle is instantaneously reflected in the other... Isn't this infinite speed?
I think your problem is that you are equating speed inversely to motion but there is no "speed" involved in entanglement in the same sense as speed is involved in motion. You are trying to go from zero time to infinite speed but that implies you are thinking of r=d/t which is a motion equation and doesn't apply. Stick with zero time and you're ok (*)

* technically we don't know for sure that it is zero time but if it's not zero it WAY closer than anything we're ever likely to be able to measure.
 

FAQ: Exploring Instantaneous Reactions: Debunking the Myth of Infinite Speed

What are instantaneous reactions?

Instantaneous reactions are chemical reactions that happen almost instantaneously. These reactions occur at an incredibly fast rate, often within milliseconds or even nanoseconds. They are often referred to as "instantaneous" because they appear to happen instantly, without any delay.

Is it true that some reactions have infinite speed?

No, it is a common misconception that some reactions have infinite speed. While some reactions may appear to happen instantaneously, they still occur at a finite speed. The idea of infinite speed is a myth and goes against the fundamental principles of chemistry.

How do scientists study instantaneous reactions?

Scientists use specialized techniques such as fast spectroscopy and ultrafast lasers to study instantaneous reactions. These techniques allow them to observe and measure the reaction as it happens at a very fast rate, providing valuable insights into the reaction mechanism.

Can instantaneous reactions be controlled or slowed down?

Yes, scientists have found ways to manipulate and control the speed of certain reactions. By altering the reaction conditions, such as temperature, pressure, or concentration, the rate of an instantaneous reaction can be slowed down or even stopped. This allows scientists to study the reaction in more detail and understand its mechanism.

Are all chemical reactions instantaneous?

No, not all chemical reactions are instantaneous. Some reactions occur at a slower rate, taking minutes, hours, or even days to complete. The speed of a reaction depends on various factors, such as the nature of the reactants, the presence of a catalyst, and the reaction conditions. Instantaneous reactions are just one type of reaction that can occur in chemistry.

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