Exploring the Nature of the Mind: Lifegazer's Idea

[M. Gaspar]

Originally posted by Iacchus32
Thanks! Of course I would extend this further to say there is a spiritual "reality" that exists behind the "material facade," and hence the notion of "mystery," where spirits do dwell, and experience the reality of God more directly.

Please give me your definition of "spirit". I'm still working on mine.

 

[Iacchus32]

Dreams and Spirits

Originally posted by M. Gaspar
Please give me your definition of "spirit". I'm still working on mine.

I don't want to get too far into that otherwise "the alarms" might sound off. So I'll just keep it specific to what I encounter in my dreams here ...


From the thread, https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=611&perpage=15&pagenumber=2" ...

Originally posted by Iacchus32
Yes, but where do we go when we dream? Now that's a whole new world (dimension) unto itself. It's not tangible in the sense that we can see it or touch it, at least in this world, and yet we've all been there ... Is it possible this is where we go when we die?

Originally posted by Iacchus32
Who are we and what are we in relationship to that which we dream about? I know for me there's always some sort of interaction going on, and it's hard to believe it's merely a by-product of some electro-chemical process going on in the brain. What are these other so-called "enitities" experiencing when they experience me? It's like I had always been there, and yet separate, as if I were a separate entity. Which, is pretty much the way I experience them.

And yet there are times when I become more concsious in this state and I say, "By the way, I haven't died yet." And they all look at me with puzzled faces and say, "What do mean? It's always been this way. This is it man (reality)." And it's about this time that I begin to wake up, and realize that I'm laying in bed, and there they are still looking at me! And I say, "Hey, I tried to explain it you!" Soon after they would all depart and I would go back to my being unaware of them.

This is the best indication I can give for now that spirits do exist.

 

[M. Gaspar]

Originally posted by Iacchus32
I don't want to get too far into that otherwise "the alarms" might sound off. So I'll just keep it specific to what I encounter in my dreams here ...


From the thread, https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=611&perpage=15&pagenumber=2" ...


This is the best indication I can give for now that spirits do exist.

Hmmm. Processing.

Goodnight. [zz)] Oh, I get it now. [zz)] Where am I? [zz)] Must shut off the computer! [zz)] Is this a lucid dream?


Just pullin' your astral leg, Iacchus. Bye for now.

 

[Iacchus32]

Originally posted by M. Gaspar
Hmmm. Processing.

Goodnight. [zz)] Oh, I get it now. [zz)] Where am I? [zz)] Must shut off the computer! [zz)] Is this a lucid dream?


Just pullin' your astral leg, Iacchus. Bye for now.

I've had some pretty lucid dreams myself. Whereas I can see how people might construe such things for being abducted by aliens. Because they can be that real!

Well, sweet dreams! ...

 

[heusdens]

Originally posted by M. Gaspar
Please tell me where you draw the line re consciousness...as requested above.

Conscious matter has arisen out of the unconscious material world in a very long and very complex process, called evolution.
The transformations are fluent, and we can not draw an exact line where unconsciousness becomes consciosness, because there are so many intermediate stages, there is only a gradual change, but in the end it builts up to many qualitative changes, we denote as consciousness.

 

[M. Gaspar]

Good morning, Heusdens...

Originally posted by heusdens
Conscious matter has arisen out of the unconscious material world in a very long and very complex process, called evolution.
The transformations are fluent, and we can not draw an exact line where unconsciousness becomes consciosness, because there are so many intermediate stages, there is only a gradual change, but in the end it builts up to many qualitative changes, we denote as consciousness.

"Conscious matter"?

Although I refer to a "kernal" or a "speck" or a "particle" of consciousness for the sake of discussion, I do not "see" consciousness as MATTER (which, again, is only bound-up energy...so why should I complain?).

The kernals of consciousness in each piece of frozen-down energy (matter) is a massless "substance" that "connected to" all the other massless substances of its ilk...much like baryonic matter is "connected to" -- or at least EFFECTED BY -- all other baryonic matter by gravity...to varying degrees.

I propose there is a corallary force to gravity within the "realm" of consciousness.

What say you?

 

[heusdens]

Originally posted by M. Gaspar
"Conscious matter"?

Although I refer to a "kernal" or a "speck" or a "particle" of consciousness for the sake of discussion, I do not "see" consciousness as MATTER (which, again, is only bound-up energy...so why should I complain?).

The kernals of consciousness in each piece of frozen-down energy (matter) is a massless "substance" that "connected to" all the other massless substances of its ilk...much like baryonic matter is "connected to" -- or at least EFFECTED BY -- all other baryonic matter by gravity...to varying degrees.

I propose there is a corallary force to gravity within the "realm" of consciousness.

What say you?

I am completely unable of making any SENSE of what you say here.


WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?


Consciousness is the highest form of self-organization of matter, and is is a product of a natural , material process, called evolution.

Please look up some textbooks on evolution of life and consciousness, cause your weird approach here does not make any sense at all.

 

[Mentat]

Originally posted by Iacchus32
Well, is it because nobody wants to argue it from Lifegazer's point of view? I can give it a shot. Of course you're probably going to say well, that's not the same ... Also, did you read my https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=26394#post26394" above?

Yeah, I read it, but I don't think that it is in-line with Lifegazer's idea. You should probably try to expound on your idea, in another thread, though, because it's interesting enough. Of course, I must point out that the universe is not an entity. The universe is a collection of entities, and cannot include itself (Russel's Paradox).

Anyway, if you would like that I try to argue for the Mind hypothesis, I can. I would just draw upon all of the knowledge of the hypothesis that I have gained, from having to combat it for so long. However, I don't think the other members are going to like it much (they all seem relieved that his idea is no longer being posted), and I don't think that it will make much difference, as I have already shown that it's unfalsifiable, but also unprovable.

 

[Mentat]

Originally posted by heusdens
I am completely unable of making any SENSE of what you say here.


WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?


Consciousness is the highest form of self-organization of matter, and is is a product of a natural , material process, called evolution.

Please look up some textbooks on evolution of life and consciousness, cause your weird approach here does not make any sense at all.

Or just doesn't agree with that which you have been taught (and believe). Remember, all fields are created equal in Philosophy; and Scientists don't claim to understand consciousness yet, so all ideas should be welcome.

 

[Mentat]

Originally posted by M. Gaspar
Hey, stop using my material!

Weren't you, on another thread, unconvinced that the Universe is an "Entity"? Guess I've been persuasive despite the protestations.

Somewhere on this thread I wanted to add my little proposition about the nature and evolution of consciousness. And this might be as good a spot as any.

However, before I do, I want to address Mentat's much-appreciated input that my posts are laced with unsupportable "assumptions."

I have done what I said I was going to do, which is re-read most of my posts and HIGHLIGHT my "assumptions". And what I came to see is that most were NOT "assumptions" but were, rather, PROPOSITIONS.

When one proposes an idea, it is not INSTANTLY PROVEN. It may, in fact, NEVER be proven...or may be proven WRONG.

My seemingly endless supply of PROPOSITIONS are only IDEAS to work with for the sake of discussion. True, I'm "attached" to a few of them, and will attempt to "make a case" for them as if I actually "KNOW"...but really I'm testing for faulty logic and thus ENJOY every kick in the pants I get.

Not wishing to go over my 10000 character limit per post, I will seek another quote from which to procede.

Well, this may be sort of off-topic, but I think when Occam's Razor refers to "assumptions", it is referring to "propositions" also. Personally, I don't see the difference between how you have defined "proposition" and the usual definition of "assumption".

 

[M. Gaspar]

Originally posted by Mentat
Of course, I must point out that the universe is not an entity. The universe is a collection of entities, and cannot include itself (Russel's Paradox).

My PROPOSITION is that the Universe IS an Entity...while you adhere to an ASSUMPTION that it is not.

A "proposition" is a new idea presented as something that MAY be "true" while an "assumption" is an idea presented as something that IS "true".

...a subtle but significant distinction.

Meanwhile, WE are also a "collection of entities" but that does NOT preclude us from being entities OURSELVES.

 

[M. Gaspar]

Originally posted by heusdens
I am completely unable of making any SENSE of what you say here.


WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?


Consciousness is the highest form of self-organization of matter, and is is a product of a natural , material process, called evolution.

Please look up some textbooks on evolution of life and consciousness, cause your weird approach here does not make any sense at all.

I have said what I am talking about.

Perhaps mine is a paradigm that cannot fit in any way, shape or form into YOUR paradigm. But I assure you, I am familiar with the evolution of life on this planet...I just don't recall any of MY textbooks making reference to consciousness.

Do YOUR textbooks say that the original fish were conscious? How about the one-cell organisms that preceded them...and us ?

I am willing to continue to try to explain my point of view...but perhaps you're growing weary of my "weird approach".

My preference is the former...with expected retorts from you. Otherwise, just let me ramble on...unheeded and unchecked.

What is your pleasure?

 

[Iacchus32]

Purpose and Consciousness

Originally posted by Mentat
Yeah, I read it, but I don't think that it is in-line with Lifegazer's idea. You should probably try to expound on your idea, in another thread, though, because it's interesting enough. Of course, I must point out that the universe is not an entity. The universe is a collection of entities, and cannot include itself (Russel's Paradox).

Where does purpose originate? Does the universe have purpose? If not, then why is man endowed with a sense of purpose? How could that be? That would be tantamount to saying the Universe created a sense of purpose outside of itself? ... And yet, who's to say mankind is not the Universe looking back at itself? ...

Is consciousness an isolated thing? Or, is it really universal? And how is it possible that mankind, through his ability of cognizance, capable of knowing all these Universal Laws pertaining to it? Are we putting the cart before the horse here? If not, then how it is it possible for a Universe without purpose, and hence cognizance, and all the laws that go with it, capable of producing such a creature that is capable of "experiencing it?" ... Are you telling me that something rises out of nothing here?

Whereas just as we all have a mother and a father in an "earthly sense," why can't we all be children of the Universe, which in fact is the origin of consciousness? While I can assure you mankind is not the origin of consciousnes, but rather "its receptacle."

Anyway, if you would like that I try to argue for the Mind hypothesis, I can. I would just draw upon all of the knowledge of the hypothesis that I have gained, from having to combat it for so long. However, I don't think the other members are going to like it much (they all seem relieved that his idea is no longer being posted), and I don't think that it will make much difference, as I have already shown that it's unfalsifiable, but also unprovable.

And of course why couldn't we argue it from the standpoint of "reason" then? Ha ha! Just joking! Yet I do try to present things in a way that people can accept or reject what I'm trying to say, although that's not always an easy task on this forum, to say the least.

 

[M. Gaspar]

Originally posted by Iacchus32
Where does purpose originate? Does the universe have purpose? If not, then why is man endowed with a sense of purpose? How could that be? That would be tantamount to saying the Universe created a sense of purpose outside of itself? ... And yet, who's to say mankind is not the Universe looking back at itself? ...

Is consciousness an isolated thing? Or, is it really universal? And how is it possible that mankind, through his ability of cognizance, capable of knowing all these Universal Laws pertaining to it? Are we putting the cart before the horse here? If not, then how it is it possible for a Universe without purpose, and hence cognizance, and all the laws that go with it, capable of producing such a creature that is capable of "experiencing it?" ... Are you telling me that something rises out of nothing here?

Whereas just as we all have a mother and a father in an "earthly sense," why can't we all be children of the Universe, which in fact is the origin of consciousness? While I can assure you mankind is not the origin of consciousnes, but rather "its receptacle."

First, a question: Is "purpose" that which serves "another" or that which serves "self"?

My thinking is that a "purpose" for self is that which SERVES self.

As an example: the "purpose" of a bank teller -- from MY point of view -- is to help me make deposits and withdrawals. However, from the point of view of the bank teller, their "purpose" of being a bank teller is, perhaps, to earn a paycheck...with their PURPOSE FOR EXISTENCE is something else altogether.

I present this distinction because I first want to talk about what I believe the "purpose" of the existence of the Universe is...from the Universe's "point of view". Which is: to have an Experience...a real complex one, which includes the life experiences of Everything That Is...past/present/future.

What ELSE would an all-knowing, all-powerful, eternal Entity do? Just sit there knowing everything and doing nothing?

Of course, there are "sub-purposes"...like seeing what It can create THIS time...and the EVOLUTION of It's consciousness...and spirit(?).

The "purpose of the Universe" for us is as the Source of our Beingness...the Universe gave rise to us via NATURAL FORCES and INGREDIENTS.

Among those "ingredients"? CONSCIOUSNESS...always there as PART of the Universe...but "shuffled" in each "incarnation of the Universe" to give rise to different "things" ...which eventually get around to sending speculations to the Universe about what the Universe actually IS.

This might be OUR "purpose" from the Universe's point of view (that of helping the Universe understand ITSELF)...while, from our point of view, our "purpose" may be the same as that of our Source: to have an experience...to create something new ...to evolve ..and to be a source for other beings.

Who knows?

 

[heusdens]

Originally posted by M. Gaspar
I have said what I am talking about.

Perhaps mine is a paradigm that cannot fit in any way, shape or form into YOUR paradigm. But I assure you, I am familiar with the evolution of life on this planet...I just don't recall any of MY textbooks making reference to consciousness.

Do YOUR textbooks say that the original fish were conscious? How about the one-cell organisms that preceded them...and us ?

I am willing to continue to try to explain my point of view...but perhaps you're growing weary of my "weird approach".

My preference is the former...with expected retorts from you. Otherwise, just let me ramble on...unheeded and unchecked.

What is your pleasure?

I obviously think you take the wrong approach in even assuming that such "elements" of consciousness exist in all matter.

Your analysis has to start with defining the border between life and lifeless matter. Within an organism there are mechanism present, that cause the organism to sustain itself, and makes it possible for organisms to actively interact with the environment. And also it can reproduce itself. Such qualities do not exist in ordinary matter.

Our position as humans is not much different then let's say bacteria, only we have developed far complex ways of interacting with the environment, and have developed all kinds of specific organs in our body, etc.

Consciousness arises as a quality, based on the fact that a level of complexity came into being, that made it possible to interact with the environment at a higher level.

No assumptions are necessary other then the normal qualities of matter, like the physical, the chemical, the biological.

 

[heusdens]

What the Mind hypothese is about

Some word on this malicious hypothese here.

The whole point of the hypothese itself can best be thought of as a Mind trick. In order for this hypothese to 'proof' itself (the only way the Mind-hypothese can validate itself, is within the mind, the hypothese really is not a hypothesis on any other part of reality, and has no application outside of it) the read of the hypothese has go through a sequence of assumptions. Most basic of these assumptions is to state that apart from our thoughts, awareness and perceptions, there is not something that is 'there' outside of the mind.
As this can not be in any way a proper way of describing reality, since it would lead directly to solipsism, the hypothese has to come up with a hypothese of reality as it is perceived and explored by science, outside of one's own mind, and independend of it. This is done by the theoretical assumption of a 'Super mind' that 'imagines' all the other minds and outside reality.

The function of this idea is quite straightforward. It will make people in effect immune against the idea of a material world, that can be known by the mind, and the ideas of materialism. It puts reality upside down, by first stating an outside world, independend of one's mind does not exist, and then arguing that the world exists in the form of a 'Super-Mind'. The purpose of this, is clear. The 'Super-Mind' has to replace the concept of matter, as is put forward by materialism.

The way of reasoning is bogus, cause it takes the position that we have to assume that outside of perception, there isn't anything there. Although our perceptions aren't perfect, it is however clear that this position is baseless. The exploration of the natural world by science, describes in much greater detail and much greater objectivity the world as it is.

 

[M. Gaspar]

Originally posted by Iacchus32
I've had some pretty lucid dreams myself. Whereas I can see how people might construe such things for being abducted by aliens. Because they can be that real!

Well, sweet dreams! ...

My understanding about lucid dreams is NOT that they are characterized by how "real" they seem...but by the fact that we "wake up" in them an realize we're in a dream !

If this the dream and the AWARENESS that it is a dream can be sustained, then we -- in the dream -- can start to direct the action ...causing things to appear, change shapes for our purposes, or anything else imaginable .

I've had a few such dreams in my life and was able to make some things "happen".

I've also had a few "astral dreams" -- where I could "fly" over trees and such -- and am amazed at the clarity of details of what I "observed" in "flight".

Is this the wrong thread for this conversation? Anyhow, I'm not much "into" dreams...operating on "faith" that I'm "working things out" on another "plane".

 

[Mentat]

Originally posted by M. Gaspar
My PROPOSITION is that the Universe IS an Entity...while you adhere to an ASSUMPTION that it is not.

Actually, mine would not be considered a proposition, just a denying of yours. However, I agree that there is nothing wrong up to this point. It's when one begins to postulate that consciousness itself may exist in discrete quanta.

Please remember that I think yours is a worthy idea, I just don't happen to agree with it.

A "proposition" is a new idea presented as something that MAY be "true" while an "assumption" is an idea presented as something that IS "true".

You're right.

 

[Iacchus32]

Originally posted by M. Gaspar
First, a question: Is "purpose" that which serves "another" or that which serves "self"?

Sorry I've been so long in getting back to you, but I've been in the process of procurring work the last couple of days and today I had to serve Jury Duty. And now that I'm back to doing nothing? ... i.e., the job didn't pan out and I've been relieved from Jury Duty.

My thinking is that a "purpose" for self is that which SERVES self.

As an example: the "purpose" of a bank teller -- from MY point of view -- is to help me make deposits and withdrawals. However, from the point of view of the bank teller, their "purpose" of being a bank teller is, perhaps, to earn a paycheck...with their PURPOSE FOR EXISTENCE is something else altogether.

I think purpose originates with self, and yet to the degree that we become "self-less," we can learn to serve the purpose of others.

I present this distinction because I first want to talk about what I believe the "purpose" of the existence of the Universe is...from the Universe's "point of view". Which is: to have an Experience...a real complex one, which includes the life experiences of Everything That Is...past/present/future.

What ELSE would an all-knowing, all-powerful, eternal Entity do? Just sit there knowing everything and doing nothing?

There's no doubt a myriad of levels of experience that God could easily pass through and thus experience "His nature." For example what does the experience of being the sun feel like? Probably "most sublime" ...

Of course, there are "sub-purposes"...like seeing what It can create THIS time...and the EVOLUTION of It's consciousness...and spirit(?).

Even so the Universe seems to behave according to a pre-existing set of rules, and nothing really behaves as if from random.

The "purpose of the Universe" for us is as the Source of our Beingness...the Universe gave rise to us via NATURAL FORCES and INGREDIENTS.

Yes, we are all "by-products" of the Universe.

Among those "ingredients"? CONSCIOUSNESS...always there as PART of the Universe...but "shuffled" in each "incarnation of the Universe" to give rise to different "things" ...which eventually get around to sending speculations to the Universe about what the Universe actually IS.

This might be OUR "purpose" from the Universe's point of view (that of helping the Universe understand ITSELF)...while, from our point of view, our "purpose" may be the same as that of our Source: to have an experience...to create something new ...to evolve ..and to be a source for other beings.

Or, maybe the Universe just enjoys being appreciated? From the standpoint of that which is most similar, i.e., consciousness?

Who knows?

Perhaps through consciousness?

 

[M. Gaspar]

Originally posted by Iacchus32
.

I think purpose originates with self, and yet to the degree that we become "self-less," we can learn to serve the purpose of others.

There's no doubt a myriad of levels of experience that God could easily pass through and thus experience "His nature." For example what does the experience of being the sun feel like? Probably "most sublime" ...

Even so the Universe seems to behave according to a pre-existing set of rules, and nothing really behaves as if from random.

Yes, we are all "by-products" of the Universe.

Or, maybe the Universe just enjoys being appreciated? From the standpoint of that which is most similar, i.e., consciousness?


Perhaps through consciousness?

Wish I could isolate quotes so that I could respond to them one by one (like others do) but I just don't know how and am, apparently, untrainable. So, let's take it from the top...

1. I was making the distinction between two perspectives of "purpose": that of one's OWN idea of one's purpose; and what OTHERS might think our purpose is for THEM.

I agree with you that we are here to serve others, as part of my personal purpose is to MAKE A DIFFERENCE.

2. Using my decoder ring, I take it that when you say "God" you are referring to what I call the "living, conscious Universe". Even though I'm a Quaker and "Friends" throw the term "God" around a lot (and I do so, too, for the sake of discussing certain concepts in "their language"), I really do not much like the CONCEPT of "God" as it is put forth by many...that of an all-knowing, all-powerful Being that exists OUTSIDE the Universe...and is It's "creator".

And, since I'm here -- rather than among "Friends" -- I prefer to use MY lingo and say that the Universe ITSELF is having a very complex EXPERIENCE.

3. The Universe is an Entity with NATURAL PROCESSES and INGREDIENTS...among these is the element of RANDOMNESS...which I see as a sort of "gatekeeper" between that which HAS been manifested and that which could be manifested.

In other words, the Universe is a "sea of possibilities" with RANDOMNESS built in as a "lynchpin". And what "pulls the lynchpin"? I think it's INTENTION!

4. PRODUCTS ... not "by-products". I believe that in each incarnation of the Universe, it INTENDS that sentient beings such as we (only better!) evolve to ask questions and seek answers...among other things.

5. Yes: APPRECIATION over "worship" makes sense to me.

6. No one will ever know "everything" except the ONE Who is Everything That Is.

 

[Iacchus32]

Originally posted by M. Gaspar
Wish I could isolate quotes so that I could respond to them one by one (like others do) but I just don't know how and am, apparently, untrainable. So, let's take it from the top...

You know how to highlight something in bold don't you? Just isolate the the text that you want to put into quotes and place a [quote'] in front of it and a [/quote'] after it. For example, [quote']Please put this line into quotes ...[/quote'] comes out to ...

Please put this line into quotes ...

Also notice the apostrophe within the brackets. This will have to be removed in order to get it to work properly. I had to modify this in order to show you how the code works, otherwise it would have put this other text into quotes as well.

 

[Iacchus32]

Academy of Remote Viewing

From the URLAT, http://www.probablefuture.com/matrix.htm ...

Most human entities spend their "waking" lives hypnotized by their sensory world, which gives them the illusion of a material reality "out there."

In reality, space and time are really nonexistent both at the level of Pure Aware Consciousness, and also at the level of the unaware "blind parts" that experience for It the illusion of creative thought within an illusory space/time construct called Creation.

Mankind rarely realizes that life is but a sensory illusion that gives experience and learning to Thought, and that the only reality is Thought Itself, which is forever evolving.

Consciousness can be defined as Awareness projected onto a vibratory Dream. Period. For Space/Time Creation it is but pure Dark lesser vibratory (conscious and subconscious) thought interacting more or less intensely with the inner Holographic Light/Thought Reality originating through the facets of The MATRIX ("Deep" of Genesis 1: 2).

Oh my God! ... Is that you Lifegazer!?

 

[M. Gaspar]

Originally posted by Iacchus32
You know how to highlight something in bold don't you? Just isolate the the text that you want to put into quotes and place a [quote'] in front of it and a [/quote'] after it. For example, [quote']Please put this line into quotes ...[/quote'] comes out to ... Also notice the apostrophe within the brackets. This will have to be [quote']removed in order to get it to work properly.[/quote']
I had to modify this in order to show you how the code works, otherwise it would have put this other text into quotes as well.

WHEN do I do this? It can't be done when looking at your post.

And you can see above what happens when I try it when I'm typing MY post.

I know it can be done! What is my problem?

 

[Iacchus32]

Originally posted by M. Gaspar
WHEN do I do this? It can't be done when looking at your post.

And you can see above what happens when I try it when I'm typing MY post.

I know it can be done! What is my problem?

Okay I'm going to reply to your post above and, in order to show what the code looks like, I'm going to use the word "quotes" instead of "quote" within the brackets, in which case you'll need to drop the "s" in order to get it to function properly. The code should look similar to what I've laid out below, and also note how I formatted it with respect to spacing and what not. The actual quoted material will show up below that ...

[quotes]Originally posted by M. Gaspar
WHEN do I do this? It can't be done when looking at your post.[/quotes]Line 1 ... This is my response to line 1 ...


[quotes]And you can see above what happens when I try it when I'm typing MY post.[/quotes]Line 2 ... This is my response to line 2 ...


[quotes]I know it can be done! What is my problem? [/quotes]Line 3 ... This is my response to line 3 ...

Like I said all you need to do is drop the "s" (in both instances) and it should show up correctly below ... and notice there are "three sets" of quotes (i.e., "s" x 6) ...

Originally posted by M. Gaspar
WHEN do I do this? It can't be done when looking at your post.

Line 1 ... This is my response to line 1 ...

And you can see above what happens when I try it when I'm typing MY post.

Line 2 ... This is my response to line 2 ...

I know it can be done! What is my problem?

Line 3 ... This is my response to line 3 ...

 

[M. Gaspar]

Iacchus...

I will attempt what you are advising after a day of prayer...

Meanwhile, let's not waste any more posts on my retardation.

 

[LogicalAtheist]

Originally posted by M. Gaspar
I will attempt what you are advising after a day of prayer...

WHAT?!?