Exploring the Origins of Order: Stenger's Fallacy of Fine Tuning

[bobsmith76]

This comes from Stenger's book the Fallacy of Fine Tuning. This passage doesn't look correct to me. I don't think it explains where order comes from, and I have a feeling that he's leaving a lot of details out

Thus the universe starts out with maximum entropy or complete disorder. It begins with zero information. It has no record of anything that may have gone on before, including the knowledge and intentions of a creator. If a creator existed, he left no record that survived that initial chaos. Once the universe exploded into the inflationary big bang, the entropy in any volume less than the Hubble volume is less than maximum, leaving room for order to form

 

[Chalnoth]

This comes from Stenger's book the Fallacy of Fine Tuning. This passage doesn't look correct to me. I don't think it explains where order comes from, and I have a feeling that he's leaving a lot of details out

Thus the universe starts out with maximum entropy or complete disorder. It begins with zero information. It has no record of anything that may have gone on before, including the knowledge and intentions of a creator. If a creator existed, he left no record that survived that initial chaos. Once the universe exploded into the inflationary big bang, the entropy in any volume less than the Hubble volume is less than maximum, leaving room for order to form

Well, it is definitely incomplete. To demonstrate order, you do have to demonstrate where that low-entropy state came from. And that is sufficient.

I do not have the book, however. I am assuming he explains how inflation is able to generate a low-entropy state?

 

[coupe]

I don't think it explains where order comes from, and I have a feeling that he's leaving a lot of details out.

A quick search reveals that he's an author of other books like: God: The Failed Hypothesis, The New Atheism, Quantum Gods, Has Science Found God?, and some others. Sounds to me like there might be an agenda behind his writings, so I wouldn't be surprised if there were indeed "alot of details" left out.

 

[Chalnoth]

A quick search reveals that he's an author of other books like: God: The Failed Hypothesis, The New Atheism, Quantum Gods, Has Science Found God?, and some others. Sounds to me like there might be an agenda behind his writings, so I wouldn't be surprised if there were indeed "alot of details" left out.

Ahh, and here I was giving the author the benefit of the doubt!

I should mention that there isn't actually a firm answer to the question I posed. There are potential answers, but no firm ones. If the author was sufficiently nuanced elsewhere, it would, nevertheless, have been understandable. But it's patently clear to me that he's an absolute crackpot based upon those books.

 

[sardar]

.

I can understand your concerns about this passage from Stenger's book. While it may seem oversimplified and lacking in detail, it is important to note that the concept of fine-tuning in the universe is a highly debated and complex topic. Stenger's argument is based on the idea that the universe began with maximum entropy, or complete disorder, and that any order that exists now is a result of natural processes rather than a deliberate act of a creator.

While this may not fully explain the origins of order, it is a valid argument and one that has been supported by scientific evidence. The theory of the inflationary big bang, for example, suggests that the universe underwent a rapid expansion in its early stages, which allowed for the formation of structure and order.

It is also important to consider that the concept of fine-tuning is often used as a way to argue for the existence of a creator or intelligent designer. However, as scientists, we must approach this idea with skepticism and rely on empirical evidence and logical reasoning to understand the origins of order in the universe.

In conclusion, while Stenger's argument may not provide a complete explanation for the origins of order, it is a valid and scientifically supported perspective that challenges the idea of fine-tuning and a deliberate act of creation. It is important for us as scientists to continue exploring and questioning these complex concepts in order to gain a deeper understanding of the universe we live in.