For WW2 buffs!

[Swamp Thing]

Aside from a few notable instances, ... calvary troops dismounted to fight.

I imagine they would tether the horses some distance away from the point of contact with the enemy? And there would be soldiers detailed to look after the horses?

 

[BWV]

I imagine they would tether the horses some distance away from the point of contact with the enemy? And there would be soldiers detailed to look after the horses?

I
yes, this was also how cavalry generally fought in the American Civil War

 

[Astronuc]

AI colorized and enhanced video of HMS Barham capsizing and suffering a magazine explosion.

Another explosion, but one involving an ammunition supply ship in harbor, not due to enemy action. November 10, 1944. "The ship was simply gone." "The largest piece of the more than 400 ft long vessel that has ever been found was a piece of hull that was some 16 ft by 10 ft." The LCM (landing craft, mechanized) along side were disintegrated. The ship's anchorage had a depth of 19 fathoms (114 ft). The force of the explosion tore a trench in the ocean 1000 ft long by 200 ft wide and between 30 and 40 feet deep.

 

[Astronuc]

As I recall the main application of geology I learned about was its value in locating oil reserves.

And minerals and ores.

After a few decades, I came to believe that WWI, which precipitated WWII, was a continuation of ongoing conflicts. European history is rife with such events. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_conflicts_in_Europe#19th_century

It appears that the world collectively has still not learned. - war is such a terrible waste.

 

[BigDon]

Hi Astronuc, long time no see!

I hope both the times and tides are seeing you well!

A phrase came out in WWII, I believe, though it could be much older that states;

"The only thing worse than fighting a war is losing a war."

It always astounds me how little armored combat inside an urban area it takes to completely hose the infrastructure.

I once saw an Abrams assault and demolish a five story former hotel and never used its main gun. It was a built up area so the tank was actually in the street right in front of the building, firing upwards. On the *first pass* of the coax guns the whole front first set of rooms collapsed from the second floor upwards, fortunately they folded back against the building itself and didn't fall outwards into the street. The hotel was made of reinforced concrete so the surviving rebar pulled most of it back inwards.

I don't think the tank cared.

Apparently the Marines were mad at this place 'cause it didn't stop there.

 

[BigDon]

Oh, I just saw the posts concerning the movie 1917.

I have one, and only one, non-spoiler complaint about it.

Every single person in that movie, due to their front line positions, with few exceptions, should have been filthy on a scale most of you wouldn't believe possible. (And still survive at least.)

I couldn't unsee it. Barely a five-o-clock shadow among them.

That was where the whole concept of Orcs came from. Tolkien did time in the trenches before writing his novels.

You ever notice the reference to the "filthy feet of Orcs" being used more than once? The bottoms of the trenches in WWI invariably became soups of mud, feces, and decomposing human blood and body fragments that you had no choice but to walk and crawl through. (If you wanted to live that is.)

And if you have a better definition of filth..., please, keep it to yourself. (joking)

 

[BWV]

80th anniversary of Barbarossa today (June 22, 2021)

https://www.dw.com/en/nazi-invasion-of-soviet-union-was-murderous-barbarity/a-57947672

 

[AlexCaledin]

Not only did Hitler's troops eat the Stalingrad cats, they made the Leningrad population eat their cats, too.

 

[DennisN]

I've discovered two good history channels on youtube lately, one about a variety of history topics (Lindybeige) including ancient/medieval warfare but also things related to WW1 and WW2, and one about various old weapons (Forgotten Weapons) which has many videos about various WW2 weapons. The fellows are quite knowledgeable. Here are some examples:

British Heavy Tanks of World War One (Lindybeige)
- a fascinating tour outside and inside of the various first modern tanks used in WW1, the British Mark I(+) tanks. The conditions for the crew members must have been very rough, which is described in the video. E.g. the engines were not in separated compartments inside the tanks.
Videos about the German Sturmgewehr 44 (which was the first working assault rifle) from "Forgotten Weapons":

Sturmgewehr MP-44 Part II: History & Implementation
Evolution of the Sturmgewehr: MP43/1, MP43, MP44, and StG44
(another fascinating video on Forgotten Weapons is this one, which is about the world's largest black powder cannon, a 100-ton gun which fired projectiles that weighed almost a tonne (!). These were installed some time before WW1, though).

 

[BWV]

The winter of 1941 was one of the coldest on record in Russia (but not the Western Hemisphere)

https://www.climate4you.com/Climate...ation Barbarossa, the German invation of USSR

Barbarossa had already failed by the time the cold hit in December, but certainly this played a role - the stories of frozen engines, guns etc are well known

The article in the link claims a low temperature of -53C NW of Moscow based on German records, but the official all-time low temp for Moscow is -42C set in Jan 1940 and the lowest temperature recorded in European Russia is -58C, far to the NE of Moscow in the foothills of the Urals

 

[Astronuc]

Interesting perspective
https://www.warhistoryonline.com/military-vehicle-news/battle-of-britain-8.html

The author of a journal which was published as “Spitfire! The Experiences of a Fighter Pilot” was unknown to most of the world. With his silk scarf and tousled hair, Lane was dubbed the “finest of The Few”.

The firsthand account of the British hero’s daily life during the Battle of Britain was released under the pseudonym B.J. Ellan . . . [/URL]

But now it is known the Ellan was the nom de plume of Squadron Leader Brian “Sandy” Lane. He was shot down over Holland in December 1942.

On the way home he is left to ponder why he felt sorry for the enemy. On the one hand he recognizes the threat the pilot of the other planes represents – perhaps tomorrow that same pilot will not hesitate to shoot down Lane.

Yet he also understands that the other pilot is just another man who happens to believe what he has been told by the leaders of his country.

Lane was working as a foreman at a light bulb factory when he signed up for the service in 1936. He rose to the rank of Flying Officer quickly and was responsible for a squadron of Spitfires.

He developed a reputation of being fearless and skilled in the air. During the Dunkirk evacuations he earned the Distinguished Flying Cross for bravery.

 

[aliceiii]

Just wanted to say thank you to all who contributed to this thread. It is really interesting

 

[Astronuc]

The Strangest Warship Battle of WW1 - Africa's Lake Tanganyika​

Interesting contrast between the German method of constructing their largest ship (Graf von Goetzen, 1600 tons) on the lake and the British approach to getting two smaller ships (Mimi and Toutou, both motor launches) from England to the lake.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MV_Liemba
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_for_Lake_Tanganyika
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Mimi_and_HMS_Toutou

 

[Astronuc]

Untold History about the B-29 Superfortress

 

[gary350]

Preparation for WWII started shortly before Hitler was elected Fuhrer. I was never interested in WWI until about 5 years ago. There are 1000s of videos to watch. Hitler had his thugs murder his opposition he won the election by a land slide. Hitler immediately had Krupp start building big artillery guns. The Paris gun shot artillery shells 76 miles that was WWI. The history channel and Secrets of the Dead have the best videos. Last night I found a new WWII video with new information I have never seen before. Have you seen the video where lightning strike causes a farm field explosion from about 2000 tons of WWI underground explosives. I think it was this summer July 2022 when 2 people were killed in London when a German bomb exploded. German Ardennes forest is a wilderness area full of 1000s of unexploded bombs, artillery shells, mortar shells, hand grenades. Documentaries show Germanys on people were helping the Americans win the war. Its all interesting especially the technology Germany was 20 years ahead of the rest of the world, even now no one has learned a lesson from WWII especially American. Germany values its own people they make sure everyone has a free education and a job.

 

[gary350]

There are 8 Episodes of this video.

 

[Astronuc]

When I was growing up, I build plastic models of WWII ships and planes, but then got more into the history and technology. I collected a number of the Ballantine Series, which has books on Battles, Campaigns, Weapons, Leaders, . . .

http://navalmarinearchive.com/research/ballantine_wwii_series.html

Sets are still around. I'm not sure what happened to my set, since I moved so often during university years that I may have lost them, or left them with may parents, who subsequently gave them away.

 

[Drakkith]

he history channel and Secrets of the Dead have the best videos.

I MUCH prefer youtube videos done by single producers or small teams than I do those by The History Channel or other companies. I find there to be much better information in the former videos, as they often literally go through the numbers on production, costs, kills, and other statistics and often provide the very sources they're using. They're often less concerned with making shows that cater to peoples preconceived views on WW2 as well. I can't begin to count the number of claims I've heard from The History Channel that, upon looking into them, don't hold up to reality.

Its all interesting especially the technology Germany was 20 years ahead of the rest of the world

What technology? The Allies were at least roughly equal to Germany technologically in almost every category except rocketry. I'd say we were even ahead of them in several key areas, such as electronics, almost right from the start. And most early gaps in equipment quality were made up by the Allies well before the war was over. Some of the claimed technological advantages, say in armored vehicles, are mostly myths. German armor was good, but so were allied armored units.

The main point most bring up in regards to armor has to do with the heavy tanks of Germany and how effective they were against allied tanks on the western front. Sure. But only because we had to literally ship our tanks across an ocean and couldn't just put them on a train right at the factory and ship them to the front lines. That constraint severely limited US and UK tank options to the point that the allies decided early on that they weren't going to focus on heavy tanks, instead relying on medium tanks (which had done the job just fine everywhere so far) for armored support. Not having heavy tanks was a disadvantage, sure, but it wasn't a technological disadvantage in my opinion, it was a logistical one.

Submarines? No, both Germany and the Allies had very good submarines. Naval weapons? Probably more advantage to the Allies if you include all of the anti-sub weaponry and supporting equipment. Surface warships? Absolute advantage to the Allies. The new state-of-the-art battleships (SoDak's, Iowa's) by the U.S. were more effective than the Bismarks thanks to better fire control, bigger guns, and better design (SoDak's had comparable armor, slightly less speed, but more guns of a larger caliber on 5,000 tons less displacement).

German DD's... basically didn't exist and the few that did were overweight monsters that wanted to be light cruisers. The Allies had what is arguably the best destroyers ever built for their time, the Fletcher class. They were well built, well armed, seaworthy, had excellent fire control and AA, and were versatile enough to take constant upgrades without compromising their seaworthiness. German heavy cruisers were inefficient and performed rather poorly. Comparable Allied ships, such as the New Orleans class, had more guns, better armor, and were just as fast. The Deutschland class had big guns, but not much else. The Allies had fantastic light cruisers, while Germany had basically none, so there's no real comparison here.

Aircraft? Allies absolutely win when it comes to bombers. No comparison at all. Fighters? Again, I have to give it to the allies. Especially in the last few years of the war. German rocket interceptors were a novel idea, but not very effective, and the British had operational jet fighters within two months of the Germans. Conventional fighters like the BF-109 were good, but not really better than many Allied fighters. Ground attack aircraft? Again, the Germans come out swinging hard with aircraft like the Stuka, but any gap is quickly made up by the Allies just a few years into the war if not earlier.

Production technology? I think the U.S. and perhaps the Soviet Union have that category hands down. Chemical technology? I don't know enough about the subject to say either way. Same for medical technology and other lesser known areas that aren't mentioned. And I'm not sure if Nuclear Weapons is its own category or not, but we all know who won that one.

There's really no clear area where Germany leads throughout the war except rocketry. If anyone has one they think Germany leads in, please let me know.

even now no one has learned a lesson from WWII especially American.

I don't know what this means.

 

[Baluncore]

There's really no clear area where Germany leads throughout the war except rocketry.

That was a very expensive lead for the Germans, in fact it was a military loss.

Neither V1 nor V2 gave a military result, yet they diverted valuable resources from both sides. They were terror weapons, designed to destroy civilian infrastructure.

As a terror weapon, the V1 would level a city block when it exploded in building structures above ground, but the V1 could be countered by AA fire using the new radio-proximity fuses, then quite unknown to the Germans.

Once launched, the V2 could not be countered, but with only half the weight of explosives carried by the V1, and tending to explode underground due to its speed, it caused significantly less damage than a V1.

The ME 163 Komet shot down sixteen allied aircraft, but it seems it killed more German pilots due to accidents with the hypergolic propellants employed, before it was withdrawn from service as a liability.

The allies invented "Operations Research" to minimise the cost of resources needed to prosecute the war. OR eliminated much of the emotional reaction from the allied planning. The V1, V2 and Komet would have been precluded by OR from development by the allies.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operations_research

 

[Astronuc]

Rolls Royce Merlin Engine ~ over 150 K built. Over 50 variants built. Inital power ~ 1000 hp, final power ~2050 hp. Capacity ~ 27 l. Carburated engine used in Spitfires, Hurricanes, Mosquitoes, Mustangs, and others

Daimler Benz BD 601 V12 engine (39 l), fuel injected, used in Me/Bf-109 and -110
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daimler-Benz_DB_601

BMW 801 radial (42 l) R14, fuel injected, used in FW-190
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_801

Junkers Jumo 004, first jet engine

 

[Astronuc]

REPUBLIC XR-12 RAINBOW - World's Fastest Four-Engine Piston-Powered Aircraft - developed in 1945, but not ready until 1946/1947

 

[Swamp Thing]

From vid description:

In 1938 Ernst Shafer and his team set off to Tibet in the name of the German Reich. In the popular imagination they were chasing a mythical land for Heinrich Himmler. But what was the reality? Were Shafer and his team chasing another Ahnenerbe fiasco or was it a legitimate expedition with real goals? Was it a success? What did they find in Tibet? The entire history of that strange expedition in 38/39 will be revealed in this video.

 

[sbrothy]

Four years ago, the youtube channel The Great War started producing weekly videos detailing the events of World War 1, as they happened, week by week, one-hundred years ago. Since then they've released hundreds of videos, including many about the weapons, equipment, tactics, and important persons in addition to the weekly release. I've watched nearly all of their videos and I enjoyed them greatly. There is so much about the war that I either misunderstood or had never heard of at all, and I highly recommend that anyone who thinks they might want to learn about one of the most terrible conflicts in human history give this series a look. The video below is the first episode of the series. Enjoy!



In addition, now that their main series on The Great War is coming to a close the folks over at that channel have recently started another series along the same vein for World War 2. It may not be the centennial anniversary of that conflict, but I think we can forgive them for not waiting another twenty years to start. If this new series is anything like the first (which it appears that it is) you'll likely learn a lot about the war. One of the main differences between this channel and most of the other media sources is the perspective of going through the war week by week, as if you're living through the war in real time. For example, in most places you'll read or hear, "On September 1st, 1939 the German Army invaded Poland, kicking off World War Two." But in this series it starts as, "On September 1st, 1939 the German Army invaded Poland, and the Polish-German War of 1939 had begun."

Perspective matters.

First episode of the series:

Wasn't it one of Himmler's twisted ideas searching for the biological roots of the Nazi "ubermench"? I seem to have read or seen something to that effect, but as you yourself mentioned there's a plethora of documentation regarding WWII. It's weird how criminal regimes like to document their atrocities only to try to burn it all last minute. With electronic storage I guess that's gonna be more difficult in the future.

I'll try to dig up a reference....

 

[Swamp Thing]

BTW, wasn't there a thread called something like "For WW2 buffs"? Has it been retitled to this thread?

 

[Drakkith]

BTW, wasn't there a thread called something like "For WW2 buffs"? Has it been retitled to this thread?

Yes, and I don't know why. I'll fix it.

 

[Borg]

That has been happening to threads for a while now. Every once in a while they rename themselves into something posted in the thread. Sometimes to something related to the first post and sometimes something else.

 

[difalcojr]

I am not a WWII history buff al all, but I do have a question on such matter that someone here might know the answer to.
I had heard that U.S. General Patton was looking for the SS training base when his army marched through Germany. Does the town of Wildflecken show up in any histories or biographies of Patton that anyone knows of?
https://www.bing.com/maps?q=Wildflecken&satid=id.sid:773875c8-4b81-4e4b-9b6b-3b6c6b357b95&FORM=KC2MAP&cp=50.352223~9.895428&lvl=11.9

 

[Drakkith]

I had heard that U.S. General Patton was looking for the SS training base when his army marched through Germany. Does the town of Wildflecken show up in any histories or biographies of Patton that anyone knows of?

I haven't read any biographies of Patton, so I can't say anything about them, but I also haven't heard of such a thing in anything else I've seen or read of Patton either.

 

[difalcojr]

That anecdote was told to me when I was stationed there in the U.S. Army. Don't remember who told me, long time ago. Never thought of it again until now, seeing this thread on WWII.

It was the location of their SS officer training center.

I do have access to a couple of Patton biographies, though, so I'll take a quick look soon, to see if there is any mention of it. Nothing about it in the movie.

 

[difalcojr]

Yes, what I heard was correct. Wildflecken Training Area was looked for but not found. Some web quotes:

"Due to the densely wooded vegetation and effective camouflage, WTA was never discovered by allied aerial reconnaisance throughout the War. German military training terminated before 6 April 1945, when elements of the Third U.S. Army occupied the area. After a short fight against the retreating germans, units of the 14th Armor Division and the 3rd Infantry Division gained control of the vast insallation."
"To make the camp as invisible as possible, all buildings were placed inside the already existing woods. Every tree to be cut down needed a special permision. This natural camoflage saved Camp Wildflecken from bombing up to the war's end."
March 22, 1945: Patton's 3rd Army, 5th Division, crossed the Rhine at Oppenheim at night.
April 6: 3rd Army occupies Wildflecken and Camp Wildflecken. 174km (108 miles) distant.

In a very short time, the 3rd Army found and occupied the huge training camp (18,000 acres).
However, the aerial reconnaissance never identified it from the air. And Patton and the Allies were surely seeking it. A major Wehrmacht and Waffen SS infantry, artillery, and armor training camp.

It is in a dense, tall tree, forested area, a rough, beautiful place of 'Wild Spots', in translation. Inclement weather and cold winters. Entire camp still completely intact, though, thankfully, and still in use today as a training camp for military exercises. Very well built in 1937. In northern Bavaria on the border with Hesse. Beautiful area of Germany.

http://www.campwildflecken.heinzleitsch.de/us-army/wta_history.htm
http://www.campwildflecken.heinzleitsch.de/truppenlager/en-beginn.htm
https://www.abebooks.com/servlet/SearchResults?kn=wise: pictorial history of the second world war&sts=t&cm_sp=SearchF-_-topnav-_-Results Volume IV.

 

[difalcojr]

The Allies were at least roughly equal to Germany technologically in almost every category except rocketry.

There's really no clear area where Germany leads throughout the war except rocketry. If anyone has one they think Germany leads in, please let me know.

Here's some B/W photos from Wise's "Pictorial History of the Second World War" which I just discovered. On the early rockets. From Vols. 3 & 4. Wartime photos, large scale, one or two per page, original books are strongly bound with quality paper. Not sure of more recent paperback copies. Still available online. 90%+ photos, chronological, amazing, realistic views of the operations and horrors of war.

Thank you @Borg for the almanac recommendation too.

 

[Baluncore]

There is physics in the defence.
I quote a first-hand account, extracted from The Secret War, 1978, BBC.

"Wing Commander Roland Beamont flew Hawker Tempests, the fastest piston-engined RAF fighter of the day, against the V1:

‘For the first few days it was rather interesting because none of us knew exactly what was going to happen; they were bombs, after all, and they were expected to blow up. We first of all started opening fire on them from about 400 yards, for safety, from astern; they were a tiny target and we used to miss them rather consistently, and so we halved the range to about 200 yards. When you fired at that range and the thing exploded in front of you, you were travelling at 400 mph or more and you’d have no time to avoid the explosion, and as soon as you saw it you were in it and you’d go through the centre of the fire ball and come out the other side and always come out upside down. It was some time before we could figure this one out but you were in fact going through a partial vacuum as you went through the centre of the explosion. In a partial vacuum the torque of this enormous propeller had the effect of twisting the aeroplane over. It was rather extraordinary. The only adverse effects were fire damage to the outside of the aeroplane – the rudder and the elevator of the Tempest were fabric-covered and quite often this used to burn, and the other problem was that the pilots used to come back with a burn blister on their left arm. In the cockpit of the Tempest you had two air ventilators, one on either side, and the left-hand one was immediately over your left arm and in hot summer weather we were all flying in shirt-sleeves and the flame was coming through the ventilator and burning our arms, so we shut the ventilator,’"

 

[difalcojr]

(Found this that Patton wrote to his Third Army day after the war in Europe ended. I'll copy it here. Can't get a good scan.)

HEADQUARTERS
THIRD UNITED STATES ARMY
APO 403
............................................................................................................................................................................9 May 1945
GENERAL ORDERS - NUMBER 98

Soldiers of the Third Army, Past, and Present

During the 281 days of incessant and victorious combat, your penetrations have advanced farther in less time than any other army in history. You have fought your way across 24 major rivers and innumerable lesser streams. You have liberated or conquered more than 82,000 square miles of territory, including 1,500 cities and towns, and some 12,000 inhabited places. Prior to the termination of active hostilities, you had captured in battle 956,000 enemy soldiers and killed wounded at least 500,000 others. France, Belgium, Luxembourg, Germany, Austria, and Czechoslovakia bear witness to your exploits.
All men and women of the six corps and thirty-nine divisions that have at different times been members of this Army have done their duty. Each deserves credit. The enduring valor of the combat troops has been paralleled and made possible by the often unpublicized activities of the supply, administrative, and medical services of this army and of the Communications Zone troops supporting it. Nor should we forget our comrades of the other armies and of the air force, particularly of the XIX Tactical Air Command, by whose side or under whose wings we have had the honor to fight.
In proudly contemplating our achievements, let us never forget our heroic dead whose graves mark the course of our victorious advances, nor our wounded whose sacrifices aided so much to our success.
I should be both ungrateful and wanting in candor if I failed to acknowledge the debt we owe to our Chiefs of Staff, Gererals Gaffey and Gay, and to the officers and men of the General and Special Staff Sections of army headquarters. Without their loyalty, intelligence, and unremitting labors, success would have been impossible.
The termination of fighting in Europe does not remove the opportunities for other outstanding and equally difficult achievements in the days which are to come. In some ways the immediate future will demand of you more fortitude than has the past because, without the inspiration of combat, you must maintain-by your dress, deportment, and efficiency-not only the prestige of the Third Army but also the honor of the United States. I have complete confidence that you will not fail.
During the course of this war I have received promotions and decorations far above and beyond my individual merit. You won them; I as your representative wear them. The one honor which is mine and mine alone is that of having commanded such an incomparable group of Americans, the record of whose fortitude, audacity, and valor will endure as long as history lasts.

........................................................................................................................................................G. S. Patton, Jr.,
....................................................................................................................................................................General

 

[difalcojr]

"Wing Commander Roland Beamont flew Hawker Tempests, the fastest piston-engine RAF fighter of the day, against the V1:

‘For the first few days it was rather interesting because none of us knew exactly what was going to happen; they were bombs, after all, and they were expected to blow up. We first of all started opening fire on them from about 400 yards, for safety, from astern; they were a tiny target and we used to miss them rather consistently, and so we halved the range to about 200 yards. When you fired at that range and the thing exploded in front of you, you were travelling at 400 mph or more and you’d have no time to avoid the explosion, and as soon as you saw it you were in it and you’d go through the centre of the fire ball and come out the other side and always come out upside down. It was some time before we could figure this one out but you were in fact going through a partial vacuum as you went through the centre of the explosion. In a partial vacuum the torque of this enormous propeller had the effect of twisting the aeroplane over. It was rather extraordinary.

Found a 'popular audience' diagram of the V1. Looks like the wings were used as the fuel tank?!

And a 'popular audience' diagram of the V2:

Other rocket developments in WWII:

And why I hate war. Peace, not war, for freedom.

 

[Drakkith]

Looks like the wings were used as the fuel tank?!

Indeed. It was and is quite common for the hollow spaces of the wings to be used as fuel tanks in aircraft of all sorts.