General education courses getting in my way

[Carnivroar]

I'm so tired of these pointless liberal art courses. The size of the general ed curriculum at my university is about the equivalent of a B.S. degree.

For example, I have to take four writing intensive courses, and they only offer liberal arts crap. Nothing like technical/science writing, which would actually help me. So until I graduate I'm stuck taking two classes every summer.

They have no consideration for us science majors or B.S degrees in general. While liberal arts majors can fulfill some of the major and gen ed at the same time, we science majors have to go out of our way to do so.

I'm so annoyed. I could be finishing my programming textbook this summer but I'm here trying to write a boring linguistics essay.

 

[Pengwuino]

Yup everyone has to go through it.

However, in reality, those courses aren't really bad. At my university, you may have to take 1 or 2 writing/english courses. The result? A lot of our graduates can't write worth a damn. The very fact that you're practicing means you're going to get better at writing or at the least, not become worse. This will help in the future because not everything you write will be a technical paper.

It's kinda like math. We require 1 or 2 (most likely 1) math courses and again, a vast majority of our students probably can barely calculate their tips yet are considered college graduates.

 

[rootX]

Nothing is pointless.

 

[Carnivroar]

Yup everyone has to go through it.

However, in reality, those courses aren't really bad. At my university, you may have to take 1 or 2 writing/english courses. The result? A lot of our graduates can't write worth a damn. The very fact that you're practicing means you're going to get better at writing or at the least, not become worse. This will help in the future because not everything you write will be a technical paper.

It's kinda like math. We require 1 or 2 (most likely 1) math courses and again, a vast majority of our students probably can barely calculate their tips yet are considered college graduates.

In my college they required only 1 math course (which is more liberal arts than math) and two very elementary science courses, so elementary that they can't even be used for a major. On the other hand, not only do we have those 4 writing intensive courses, but also about 2 semesters worth of other liberal arts/writing courses like history, English, political science, etc. Can anyone else see what the problem here is, or am I just complaining too much?

 

[Jimmy Snyder]

I also had to take libreral arts corses. What a waist.

 

[HeLiXe]

two very elementary science courses, so elementary that they can't even be used for a major.

Are these science courses prereqs for other higher science courses you have to take?

 

[Carnivroar]

Are these science courses prereqs for other higher science courses you have to take?

Not at all. Even if I took the two physics ones they offered as gen ed, they wouldn't count for my major. They are tailored to the liberal arts crowd.

 

[Adyssa]

I live/study in Australia, but I don't have any "general" courses in my (CompSci) degree, you poor thing!

I do enjoy writing to some extent though, and wouldn't balk too much at having to write more essays (I did one last semester, somewhat technical in nature, but I think it's the only one I need to do for my degree :P)

 

[KrisOhn]

I also had to take libreral arts corses. What a waist.

 

[chiro]

I live/study in Australia, but I don't have any "general" courses in my (CompSci) degree, you poor thing!

I do enjoy writing to some extent though, and wouldn't balk too much at having to write more essays (I did one last semester, somewhat technical in nature, but I think it's the only one I need to do for my degree :P)

I'm Australian as well and the degree structure here is great. I have to write essays (I think reports are probably a better term) in subjects like statistics and applied mathematics, but I enjoy doing so.

I remember I met an exchange student from the US and he did some breadth level subjects to do with Indigenous Australians and from what he was doing I felt bad that he do a subject that was so pointless.

In case you Americans (or otherwise) are wondering, some of our universities have your system: one that comes to mind is the University of Melbourne. They have compulsory breadth subjects there.

 

[HeLiXe]

Not at all. Even if I took the two physics ones they offered as gen ed, they wouldn't count for my major. They are tailored to the liberal arts crowd.

I was wondering because sometimes you can bypass these simple courses with a placement exam. I know that you cannot avoid the social science and humanities prereqs, but there should be a way for you to replace the general requirement for natural science and math courses with the courses that count toward your major. Try to find a good advisor and see if it can be done. My biology and chemistry courses filled the requirement for two natural science courses and they are required courses for my major.

 

[micromass]

I'm soooo glad that we don't have those silly general education classes in Belgium.

 

[WatermelonPig]

My school basically requires art history in order to complete one of the requirements. >_>

 

[Anonymous217]

At Berkeley (L&S college), you have to take 7 "breadth" courses, 1 "american cultures" course, 2 "reading & comprehension" courses, and a total of 6 UD units outside your major.

Assuming you overlap reqs to maximize efficiency, this totals to 9 general-ed courses..

 

[Carnivroar]

At Berkeley (L&S college), you have to take 7 "breadth" courses, 1 "american cultures" course, 2 "reading & comprehension" courses, and a total of 6 UD units outside your major.

Assuming you overlap reqs to maximize efficiency, this totals to 9 general-ed courses..

That's not bad. ****ing 18 courses of general education at my school. This is ridiculous, this is all a business. I would transfer but then I'd end up losing the credits so there's no way out of it.

 

[daveb]

The GE classes at UCLA were never geared twoards a specific major. Just like Anonymous217, they were "breadth" classes. If one or two happened to overlap your major, that was OK. For me, the math and science overlapped my major, the history and English didn't. For the English major, the math and science didn't overlap his major.

 

[vela]

Can anyone else see what the problem here is, or am I just complaining too much?

You're complaining too much. It's like a high school kid complaining about having to take algebra when he's never going to use it. You go to college to learn how to think, and preparing for a career is secondary to that. There's more to life than just science and math, and it doesn't hurt to be exposed to ideas from other fields.

 

[Mororvia]

Can anyone else see what the problem here is, or am I just complaining too much?

Another vote for complaining too much. Look on the bright side, at least you would likely get paid to attend graduate school. Those liberal arts folks can't say that!

I may just be pulling this out of the ether here, but I believe one of the reasons our non-American friends don't have to go through a lot of the BS we do here in the states is because their equivalent of high school actually prepares them pretty well for all of these things.

 

[Carnivroar]

Another vote for complaining too much. Look on the bright side, at least you would likely get paid to attend graduate school. Those liberal arts folks can't say that!

I may just be pulling this out of the ether here, but I believe one of the reasons our non-American friends don't have to go through a lot of the BS we do here in the states is because their equivalent of high school actually prepares them pretty well for all of these things.

That's how it should be in the first place. The bulk of these general education courses should be taught in HS, not in college. I don't think gen ed is a bad idea, only maybe it's just my school in specific that requires way too many of them (60 credits). Besides, gen ed requirements are usually different for B.A vs B.S degrees no? In my school it isn't.

 

[Pengwuino]

That's how it should be in the first place. The bulk of these general education courses should be taught in HS, not in college. I don't think gen ed is a bad idea, only maybe it's just my school in specific that requires way too many of them (60 credits). Besides, gen ed requirements are usually different for B.A vs B.S degrees no? In my school it isn't.

My university has a standard GE course load for everyone except education students for some reason.

 

[Carnivroar]

You're complaining too much. It's like a high school kid complaining about having to take algebra when he's never going to use it. You go to college to learn how to think, and preparing for a career is secondary to that. There's more to life than just science and math, and it doesn't hurt to be exposed to ideas from other fields.

Which do you think is more important, spending the rest of the summer finishing a programming textbook, reviewing calc material, and checking out my new physics textbook, or wasting time with a online writing class for which paid 800 dollars, and which will probably make a significant dent on my GPA?

I'm all about being exposed to different fields (I've taken French literature as an elective, would minor in it if I had time), but excessive gen eds are only create mediocre students in their chosen field, all for the sake of being a "well-rounded student", and if I hear that stupid phrase one more time I think I'll kill my cat.

 

[lisab]

...and if I hear that stupid phrase one more time I think I'll kill my cat.

That's just the thing a person lacking a well-rounded education would say!

 

[Proton Soup]

i believe this is the "university" curriculum model. "tech" schools don't have quite so much artsy-fartsy focus, do they?

 

[Anonymous217]

Yup. It's what you get for going to a "liberal arts" school.

 

[Carnivroar]

Do tech schools also offer bachelor degrees or is it a different kind?

I wish I went to City College instead, where Michio Kaku teaches (that alone would probably improve my degree's reputation). The gen ed requirements there are MUCH better for the B.S degrees, even though my school is also a CUNY one.

 

[QuarkCharmer]

I have taken my share of worthless easy A (depending on your professor) general education courses. Among the usual assortment of 20th century or French literature, I was fortunate enough to fill three of those 8 courses with Medieval Engineering, History of Mathematics, and a liberal arts style survey course on popular physics (Which sadly, was taught by someone who had no knowledge of physics, but the reading was fun).

The other 5 courses though, a complete waste of energy. They are all watered down easy A courses that I slept through. One of the courses was graded on 6 research papers (on the civil war, yuck), and the professor "did not believe in A's". Every single person in the course got a B. I asked him what it would have taken to get an A, and he basically told me that he only gives A's to students who go above and beyond the course material, researching topics under his guidance, visiting him during his office hours and all that.

Please, I don't have time for that garbage.

 

[wisvuze]

I used to be on the complainers boat; in addition to the 13-15 maximum math credits I'm allowed to take, I need 5-7 credits in other subjects. Among those, I need at least 1 humanities, 1 social science, and an "ethics course". Still haven't gotten around to taking that ethics course yet, but I've decided to take a minor out on linguistics ( 4 credits ) and that should deal with my other credits! Sometimes it can be exciting to discover a field other than mathematics that is awesome

 

[SpringCreek]

or wasting time with a online writing class for which paid 800 dollars

Requiring students to take courses they otherwise would eschew bolsters the enrollment in those courses. Through that and the tuition paid it helps to support those academic programs and departments.

And there is always the off chance that one or more of those subjects will awaken something in you. I had to take a course called Business and Society which traced the history of business from medieval guilds to modern times. I have to say, it was surprisingly interesting, and twenty years later it still helps me to understand certain current events.

 

[Carnivroar]

Don't get me wrong, I don't have anything against gen ed and electives (if I wasn't "forced" to take that math course, I wouldn't eventually have chosen physics/cs as my major), but damn, almost 20 courses required at my school? I should get a B.A in Bullgarbageology just for that alone.

 

[Proton Soup]

Don't get me wrong, I don't have anything against gen ed and electives (if I wasn't "forced" to take that math course, I wouldn't eventually have chosen physics/cs as my major), but damn, almost 20 courses required at my school? I should get a B.A in Bullgarbageology just for that alone.

now now, nothing wrong with getting a philosophy degree if your aim is law school

 

[mege]

That's how it should be in the first place. The bulk of these general education courses should be taught in HS, not in college. I don't think gen ed is a bad idea, only maybe it's just my school in specific that requires way too many of them (60 credits). Besides, gen ed requirements are usually different for B.A vs B.S degrees no? In my school it isn't.

Maybe that's the symptom of why the Liberal Arts approach is widely used? If High School graduates are entering college unprepared, why not make the foundational learning manditory?

For me, going back to school (I'm almost 30 and in college as a junior), I have to take 16 credits of a foreign language. I had 4 years of language in High School, but still I am required to do this. Luckilly, aside from the language classes, I only have to take an art class of some sort to finish my gen ed requirements.

The biggest downside, I see, to the gen ed requirements - is there are so many classes offered that qualify for these liberal arts requirements that students can choose their way out of what truly is important. Maybe call me old fashioned, but I don't think someone's liberal arts education should be filled with classes titled Gay History 1990-1999, Music of the Extint Amazon Tribes, Modern Art Appreciation, and the History of Women in the Year 1420. I'd rather see mostly classic history required and maybe a topics class, or two - but allowing someone to pigeonhole themselves away from mainstream topics defeats the purpose IMO.

 

[daveb]

Requiring students to take courses they otherwise would eschew bolsters the enrollment in those courses. Through that and the tuition paid it helps to support those academic programs and departments.

And there is always the off chance that one or more of those subjects will awaken something in you. I had to take a course called Business and Society which traced the history of business from medieval guilds to modern times. I have to say, it was surprisingly interesting, and twenty years later it still helps me to understand certain current events.

The best classes I ever took were those not in my major - ethics, English composition, and archeology. Of course, it was the instructors/subject matter in combination that made these the best classes, not the subject matter itself.