General Equation for Sn in Terms of n

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In summary, we discussed finding the general equation for Sn and approximating it for large n. By viewing the sum as a Riemann sum and using an integral equation, we found that Sn is approximately equal to √2n. The integral equation evaluated at x=0 forces c=0, providing an explanation for our approximation.
  • #1
m84uily
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Sn = ∑ni = 1 (Sn - i)-1
S0 = 1

I want to know how to find the general equation for Sn (An example of what I mean by "general equation" would be
Sn = ∑ni = 1i = n(n+1)/2).
Here's S0 though S5:

S0 = 1
S1 = 1
S2 = 1 + 1
S3 = 1 + 1 + 1/2
S4= 1 + 1 + 1/2 + 2/5
S5 = 1 + 1 + 1/2 + 2/5 + 10/29

Thanks in advance, sorry if anything is unclear.
 
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  • #2
I don't know about an exact formula, but it seems that for large ##n##, ##S_n \approx \sqrt{2 n}##.
 
  • #3
The_Duck said:
I don't know about an exact formula, but it seems that for large ##n##, ##S_n \approx \sqrt{2 n}##.

That's neat! How did you get that result?
 
  • #4
We can view the sum as being a Riemann sum (using rectangles of width 1) corresponding to the following integral equation:
$$f(x) = \int_{0}^{x}\frac{dt}{f(t)}$$
Differentiating both sides, we get
$$f'(x) = \frac{1}{f(x)}$$
By the product rule, this is equivalent to
$$ \frac{d}{dx}(f(x)\cdot f(x)) = 2$$
Thus
$$(f(x))^2 = 2x + c$$
and
$$f(x) = \sqrt{2x + c}$$
The integral equation evaluated at ##x=0## forces ##c=0##.

So ##f(x) = \sqrt{2x}## is a solution to the integral equation, and therefore, ##S_n = \sqrt{2n}## is an approximate solution to the original problem, when ##n## is large.
 
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  • #5
jbunniii said:
We can view the sum as being a Riemann sum (using rectangles of width 1) corresponding to the following integral equation:
$$f(x) = \int_{0}^{x}\frac{dt}{f(t)}$$
Differentiating both sides, we get
$$f'(x) = \frac{1}{f(x)}$$
By the product rule, this is equivalent to
$$ \frac{d}{dx}(f(x)\cdot f(x)) = 2$$
Thus
$$(f(x))^2 = 2x + c$$
and
$$f(x) = \sqrt{2x + c}$$
The integral equation evaluated at ##x=0## forces ##c=0##.

So ##f(x) = \sqrt{2x}## is a solution to the integral equation, and therefore, ##S_n = \sqrt{2n}## is an approximate solution to the original problem, when ##n## is large.

Thanks a lot for explaining that, there's something I don't understand though:
The integral equation evaluated at ##x=0## forces ##c=0##.
Why is c=0 forced? Why isn't it c=1?
 
  • #6
m84uily said:
Thanks a lot for explaining that, there's something I don't understand though:
The integral equation evaluated at ##x=0## forces ##c=0##.
Why is c=0 forced? Why isn't it c=1?
We have
$$f(x) = \int_{0}^{x}\frac{dt}{f(t)}$$
Evaluating this at ##x=0## gives us
$$f(0) = \int_{0}^{0}\frac{dt}{f(t)}$$
The right hand side is an integral over an interval of zero width, so the result is zero. Note that this forces the integrand to have zero denominator at ##t=0##, but that's OK: the integral from 0 to 0 is still 0, and ##1/\sqrt{2t}## is (improperly) integrable over ##[0,x]## despite the singularity at ##t=0##.

Don't be concerned that ##f(0) = 0## does not match ##S_0 = 1## - no one is claiming that ##\sqrt{2n}## is an exact fit, just that it is a good approximation for large ##n##. Note that even if we had ##c=1##, the difference between ##\sqrt{2n+1}## and ##\sqrt{2n}## is negligible for large ##n##.
 
  • #7
Okay thanks again, I understand now.
 

FAQ: General Equation for Sn in Terms of n

What is the purpose of finding an equation for the nth value?

The purpose of finding an equation for the nth value is to have a mathematical expression that can be used to calculate any specific value in a sequence or pattern. This can be useful in various fields of science, such as physics, chemistry, and biology, where patterns and relationships between variables need to be understood and predicted.

How do you find the equation for the nth value?

To find the equation for the nth value, you need to first identify the pattern or sequence in the data. This can be done by analyzing the given values and looking for common differences or ratios. Once the pattern is determined, it can be expressed in terms of the nth value using variables and mathematical operations.

What information is needed to find the equation for the nth value?

In order to find the equation for the nth value, you need to have a set of values that follow a specific pattern or sequence. These values can be in the form of a table, graph, or even a word problem. Additionally, some knowledge of algebra and mathematical operations is required to express the pattern in terms of the nth value.

Can different equations be used to find the nth value?

Yes, different equations can be used to find the nth value depending on the pattern or sequence being analyzed. For example, a linear sequence can be expressed using the equation y = mx + b, while an exponential sequence can be expressed using the equation y = ab^n. It is important to choose the right equation that accurately represents the pattern.

Why is finding the equation for the nth value important in science?

Finding the equation for the nth value is important in science because it allows us to make predictions and understand the relationships between variables in a systematic and mathematical way. It also helps to simplify complex data and make it easier to analyze and interpret. This can lead to new discoveries and advancements in various fields of science.

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