Get the Facts: Get Your Flu Shot Now

[BWV]

80,000 people died of flu and nearly a million were hospitalized in the US last season -this season’s strains are not as bad, but the vaccine is an easy preventative.

Unfortunately a recent study found something like half of americans mistakenly believe flu vaccines can cause the flu.
https://www.orlandosentinel.com/health/os-ne-orlando-health-flu-survey-20181015-story.htmlFlu vaccines may not completely prevent you from getting the flu, but they reduce the severity of symptoms and risk of death

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/qa/misconceptions.htm

 

[Nik_2213]

May I also suggest getting the 'decadal' pneumonia vaccine ? Again, it may not prevent the illness, but it should mitigate it...

On a darker note, should there be a 'Spanish Flu' grade epidemic and your hospital declares 'Code Black', your vaccinations will give you valuable triage points. Literally, if given some care, you're much more likely to survive than the 'Anti-Vaxxers' to either side...

FWIW, after my FIL had a very, very bad heart attack, so would be bed-ridden for long weeks in Winter, at high risk of 'hospital pneumonia' if a second cardiac event didn't strike, the fact he'd had his seasonal 'flu' vaccination and his decadal pneumonia vaccination swung the balance of treatment from 'palliative / DNR' to 'active'.

Three months later, he'd beat the estimated <10 % odds of survival, was home and convalescing...

 

[Klystron]

Thanks for reiterating the need for up-to-date vaccinations. My parents and grandparents sadly described the "missing generation" following the 1917-18 influenza pandemic. My father and nonagenarian uncle complained as children of "no one to play with"; in New York City (!).

 

[Greg Bernhardt]

80,000 people died of flu and nearly a million were hospitalized in the US last season

Just to be clear that is 2017. That number is really astonishing and I am ashamed to say I missed this year's flu vaccination and now I think it's a bit too late.

 

[berkeman]

I work part-time in EMS, so getting a flu shot is a no-brainer for me. I try to get it as early as possible, basically in the first couple weeks that the vaccine is available.

Unfortunately a recent study found something like half of americans mistakenly believe flu vaccines can cause the flu.

My wife gets mildly sick right after getting her annual flu shot, but not with a flu. Her system is a bit sensitive, so she just feels lousy for a couple of days. She's gotten used to it, and understands the value of getting vaccinated. (She spends a lot of time with the grandkids, who are little germ magnets)

now I think it's a bit too late.

Nah, never too late until this year's new blend comes out near the end of the year. Go for it!

 

[Nik_2213]

Just to be clear that is 2017. That number is really astonishing and I am ashamed to say I missed this year's flu vaccination and now I think it's a bit too late.

No, still time if stocks allow.

May protect you against a 'double hump' 'flu season.

 

[jim mcnamara]

No, @Greg Bernhardt - it is definitely not too late for a flu shot.

H1N1 flu was the pathogen that killed 600000 people in the US - in 1919. Most victims were under the age of 25.

Currently in the US, H1N1 (swine flu) is the most prevalent extant flu variant. Swine flu variants originate in China.
Flu virus roadmap:
1. Wild duck populations harbor dozens of flu variants, H1N1 included
2. Wild ducks swim and dabble in a pond where farmer Xeng has his domestic ducks during the day.
3. The domestic ducks get the flu variants. For most ducks this is not life threatening. Good news is ducks cannot transmit flu to humans.
4. Bad news: pigs can and do transmit flu to humans. So all we need now is a way to give the flu to the pigs.
5. Xeng and everyone else in the village traditionally keep pigs in a night shelter right next to the ducks.
6. Pigs wallow in duck poop, pick up the flu variant, then donate the variant to Xeng's family who in turn donate it to friends and visitors.
7. Voila, a pandemic in the making. All we need now is lots of people who did not get the flu shot to help spread the germs everywhere.

This is why it is called swine flu. And also part of the reason why new variants of swine flu arise in the human population.
PS: the flu shot protects against H1N1 specifically.

 

[russ_watters]

Unfortunately a recent study found something like half of americans mistakenly believe flu vaccines can cause the flu.
https://www.orlandosentinel.com/health/os-ne-orlando-health-flu-survey-20181015-story.html

My wife gets mildly sick right after getting her annual flu shot, but not with a flu. Her system is a bit sensitive, so she just feels lousy for a couple of days. She's gotten used to it, and understands the value of getting vaccinated.

Alarming answers in that survey aside, I'm someone who usually has a reaction to the shot, and as such I usually don't get one. I rarely get the flu, so for me it is a calculation of a high probability of being mildly sick for 2 days vs a 10% chance of 5 days of very sick with the flu. I recognize my choice reduces herd immunity and I'm not saying it's right, but that's game theory for you. [shrug]

Here's the thing though: my calculus is going to change when I get older. At middle-age, in good shape, a flu is very unlikely to kill me. When I'm 70, the risk will be much higher so the downside of getting very sick vs few days mildly sick will be higher.

 

[symbolipoint]

Alarming answers in that survey aside, I'm someone who usually has a reaction to the shot, and as such I usually don't get one. I rarely get the flu, so for me it is a calculation of a high probability of being mildly sick for 2 days vs a 10% chance of 5 days of very sick with the flu. I recognize my choice reduces herd immunity and I'm not saying it's right, but that's game theory for you. [shrug]

Here's the thing though: my calculus is going to change when I get older. At middle-age, in good shape, a flu is very unlikely to kill me. When I'm 70, the risk will be much higher so the downside of getting very sick vs few days mildly sick will be higher.

russ_watters, both you and Greg should definitely have the flu vaccination - and every year! How long do you believe you can trust your "only mildly sick" effect?

There were a couple of times or so when I skipped flu vax, and I became sick - with something - maybe influenza. I never want anything like that again. You've been lucky.

 

[cobalt124]

I qualified for a free flu shot so had it for the first time about four months ago (no side effects), have also been recommended the pneumonia shot, but haven't had that. About this time of year I'm usually off work with flu, but so far so good.

 

[Greg Bernhardt]

pneumonia shot

Should everyone try to get that too? Why not right?

 

[jim mcnamara]

There are two primary variants of the pneumonia shot. In the US most insurance companies cover them both.

CDC recommends 2 pneumococcal vaccines for all adults 65 years or older. You should receive a dose of PCV13 first, followed by a dose of PPSV23, at least 1 year later. If you already received any doses of PPSV23, get the dose of PCV13 at least 1 year after the most recent PPSV23 dose.

Other adults:
https://www.cdc.gov/features/adult-pneumococcal/index.html
There are lots of conditions related to medications or preexisting conditions for which both shots are recommended. Pneumococcal pneumonia kills a lot of adults. My diabetic adult kids got both shots, for example.

 

[Ygggdrasil]

Should everyone try to get that too? Why not right?

CDC recommends 2 pneumococcal vaccines for all adults 65 years or older.

https://www.cdc.gov/features/adult-pneumococcal/index.html

Presumably this is because older people are more susceptible to pneumonia and serious complications related to pnemonia. It is also recommended for smokers and people with other health conditions that render them more susceptible to pneumonia.

 

[russ_watters]

russ_watters, both you and Greg should definitely have the flu vaccination - and every year! How long do you believe you can trust your "only mildly sick" effect?

The thing with insurance is that you are pretty much guaranteed to need it if you wait long enough, but that one loss doesn't necessarily make it worth having. If I get the flu it'll be a really bad week I could have avoided that year. But it won't negate the weeks of not being sick I've had due to not getting it.

Unfortunately it is difficult to find sober analysis of an individual's cost/benefit for the flu shot. It's crackpots on one side and people/institutions not focused on the individual on the other.

 

[Greg Bernhardt]

Just got my flu shot! [emoji123]

 

[Laroxe]

The thing with insurance is that you are pretty much guaranteed to need it if you wait long enough, but that one loss doesn't necessarily make it worth having. If I get the flu it'll be a really bad week I could have avoided that year. But it won't negate the weeks of not being sick I've had due to not getting it.

Unfortunately it is difficult to find sober analysis of an individual's cost/benefit for the flu shot. It's crackpots on one side and people/institutions not focused on the individual on the other.

I suspect the problem in looking at a cost benefit analysis is that it changes every year, it really boils down to how good the predictions are for the main strains circulating. Last year the effectiveness was quite low, so far this year it looks like they are spot on. In the UK they only recommend it for people thought to be at risk or for people who might facilitate its spread, but it it widely available if people want it. There have also been some improvements in the vaccine's this year to make them more effective in people with reduced immune competence

 

[berkeman]

or for people who might facilitate its spread

This is a key point from my perspective (speaking with my EMS hat on). In addition to the selfish aspect of making the decision whether to get the flu shot or not (to avoid the pain and lost work from a week or more of illness, and to avoid giving your family members the flu), there is an altruistic aspect where you understand that it's a responsibility in society to mitigate the chance of the propagation of the illness (or worse yet a full-blown pandemic).

There are several things that can factor into that "altruistic" decision:

• How much do you travel?
• How many people do you work with daily at your office (do you work at home by yourself, or in a large office)?
• How quickly do you usually detect that you feel like you are getting sick?
• Do you have an easy way to take your temperature if you feel like you are getting sick?
• When you are at work, and start feeling like you might be getting sick, and you take your temperature (or have one of your medical folks take it for you) and it's elevated, do you leave work right away, or keep working through the rest of the day?
  
• Do you have a family that you live with, or do you live alone?
• If you live with family members, are they in age groups (or have a previous illness history) so that they are more likely to die from being infected?
• How reliable are you at following the rule that you stay home if you have the flu, and don't return to work or contact others until you are fever free for at least 24 hours (while NSAID free)?

@russ_watters is a friend, (plus he knows where I live), so I'm not going to bad-mouth him about not getting the vaccine. But from my perspective, the tradeoff calculation depends on more than just whether it makes you feel bad for a couple of days.

 

[pinball1970]

80,000 people died of flu and nearly a million were hospitalized in the US last season -this season’s strains are not as bad, but the vaccine is an easy preventative.

Unfortunately a recent study found something like half of americans mistakenly believe flu vaccines can cause the flu.
https://www.orlandosentinel.com/health/os-ne-orlando-health-flu-survey-20181015-story.htmlFlu vaccines may not completely prevent you from getting the flu, but they reduce the severity of symptoms and risk of death

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/qa/misconceptions.htm

That is crazy! 80,000!

I have asthma so I get my jab for free, there are high risk groups who should get it.

Spanish flu killed healthy individuals including battle hardened soldiers.

 

[OCR]

That is crazy! 80,000!

It is... .

But to put somewhat of a perspective on things... . The Third Rail: Medical Error as a Leading Cause of Death | Physician's Weekly

A New, Evidence-based Estimate of Patient Harms Associated w... : Journal of Patient Safety

.

 

[Evo]

I've known 2 people that almost died from the flu, and one, my brother in law, that did die. The two that didn't were both deathly ill for 6 months, one was a student and had to withdraw, the other had graduated and had been interviewing, luckily was living with parents, and had to put his job search on hold. The student developed pneumonia and pleurisy. My brother in law caught the flu, became seriously ill, went into the hospital and was dead, all within 2 weeks. None of these people had gotten a flu vaccination.

I remember the last time I had the flu, the horrific pain I felt in my bones, it is nothing like a cold and lasts much longer. I've gotten a flu vaccine every year since and will every year. No way I am going through that again.

 

[JamesPhD]

80,000 people died of flu and nearly a million were hospitalized in the US last season -this season’s strains are not as bad, but the vaccine is an easy preventative.

Unfortunately a recent study found something like half of americans mistakenly believe flu vaccines can cause the flu.
https://www.orlandosentinel.com/health/os-ne-orlando-health-flu-survey-20181015-story.htmlFlu vaccines may not completely prevent you from getting the flu, but they reduce the severity of symptoms and risk of death

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/qa/misconceptions.htm

Why do so many people in the US get the flu? In Europe, we might have a flu vaccine once every 5 years or so ( at least in the UK and Ireland) and the flu level is very low to non-existant and almost never causes death. I'm wondering if there is a genetic component, Americans are more genetically susceptible to getting the flu for some reason and people from Europe are not. Its either that or something in your food or environment. Or you have some really specific strains of the flu that only exist in continental america.Just a thought. Has there been a study?

 

[Greg Bernhardt]

Why do so many people in the US get the flu? In Europe, we might have a flu vaccine once every 5 years or so ( at least in the UK and Ireland) and the flu level is very low to non-existant and almost never causes death. I'm wondering if there is a genetic component, Americans are more genetically susceptible to getting the flu for some reason and people from Europe are not. Its either that or something in your food or environment. Or you have some really specific strains of the flu that only exist in continental america.Just a thought. Has there been a study?

UK has flu rate at 21 per 100k
https://www.theguardian.com/society...gps-under-huge-pressure-as-deaths-soar-to-120

USA has flu rate of 27 per 100k
https://www.cdc.gov/flu/weekly/index.htm

So where are you getting your data?

 

[Nik_2213]

" almost never causes death..."

Because it is not the 'flu that kills you, but consequent heart-failure, a fall while distressed, pneumonia (*) and/or other complications...

*) So get your decadal pneumonia vaccination, too. As for 'flu, this does not guarantee immunity, but should mitigate the misery...

 

[BWV]

Why do so many people in the US get the flu? In Europe, we might have a flu vaccine once every 5 years or so ( at least in the UK and Ireland) and the flu level is very low to non-existant and almost never causes death. I'm wondering if there is a genetic component, Americans are more genetically susceptible to getting the flu for some reason and people from Europe are not. Its either that or something in your food or environment. Or you have some really specific strains of the flu that only exist in continental america.Just a thought. Has there been a study?

15k flu deaths in the UK. UK population is roughly 20% of US so within a few percentage points of the same mortality rate.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.te...level-40-years-experts-blame-ineffective/amp/

 

[256bits]

Illnesses range from mild to severe and even death. Hospitalization and death occur mainly among high risk groups. Worldwide, these annual epidemics are estimated to result in about 3 to 5 million cases of severe illness, and about 290 000 to 650 000 respiratory deaths.

In industrialized countries most deaths associated with influenza occur among people age 65 or older (1)

https://www.who.int/en/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/influenza-(seasonal)
World Wide
Say respiratory deaths = 1 x 10 ⁶ per 10 x 10⁹ ( due to estimation errors on the low side ) = 0.00010 - 10 deaths per 100,000,

How is the world death rate due to influenza less than the US or UK ( industrialized ) rate ( 27 , 21 per 100,000 )? Post #22 by @Greg Bernhardt
One would think WHO knows.
( Did I miss a beat there ( decimal place ) )
Something is odd.
Statistical tallying? As presented in post #23 by @Nik_2213

 

[Laroxe]

https://www.who.int/en/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/influenza-(seasonal)
World Wide
Say respiratory deaths = 1 x 10 ⁶ per 10 x 10⁹ ( due to estimation errors on the low side ) = 0.00010 - 10 deaths per 100,000,

How is the world death rate due to influenza less than the US or UK ( industrialized ) rate ( 27 , 21 per 100,000 )? Post #22 by @Greg Bernhardt
One would think WHO knows.
( Did I miss a beat there ( decimal place ) )
Something is odd.
Statistical tallying? As presented in post #23 by @Nik_2213

Nothings odd really, the WHO estimates only cover respiratory deaths and rather predictably show the poorest countries have the highest levels of mortality, as the CDC point out "The study authors note that these new estimates are limited to flu-associated respiratory deaths and therefore may underestimate the true global impact of seasonal influenza. Influenza infection can create or exacerbate other health factors which are then listed as the cause of death on death certificates, for example cardiovascular disease, diabetes, or related complications. Additional research to estimate non-respiratory causes of flu-associated deaths are ongoing." In fact few countries have the resources to accurately monitor the real incidence of flu and its related mortality.
https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2017/p1213-flu-death-estimate.html
The incidence of flu in the US and UK are very similar, both countries recommend annual vaccination but the UK only recommends vaccination for high risk groups and health care staff.

 

[256bits]

page 40
https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr61/nvsr61_04.pdf
Year 2010

so grouping pneumonia along with influenza does make the rate seem quite high.

Is influenza the only factor that would induce a pneumonia health risk?
AFAIK, these groupings would be estimates of influenza related deaths, rather than factual data.

 

[jim mcnamara]

End stage dementia patients often have cause of death listed as e.g., 'pneumonia secondary to Alzheimers'. Age is also a risk factor for bacterial pneumonia. The reason why elderly folks are strongly encouraged to get both pneumonia shots.

 

[Evo]

Is influenza the only factor that would induce a pneumonia health risk?

No, you can get pneumonia without the flu, if I understand your question. I've had pneumonia before and was in the hospital inside an oxygen tent. The student I mentioned that developed pneumonia and pleurisy and was ill for roughly 6 months had the flu 6 months earlier, so if they had died from pneumonia, cause of death would most likely have just been listed only as pneumonia, no mention of flu, which was the original cause. I was really frightened that they were not going to get over it.

 

[Laroxe]

View attachment 239440
page 40
https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr61/nvsr61_04.pdf
Year 2010

so grouping pneumonia along with influenza does make the rate seem quite high.

Is influenza the only factor that would induce a pneumonia health risk?
AFAIK, these groupings would be estimates of influenza related deaths, rather than factual data.

There are a number of ways they come up with these numbers, its complicated by the fact that flu on its own is rarely the cause of death,(though it can be) though in fact the same could usually be said for most other "causes". Flu puts serious demands on our bodies and the question is how capable our bodies are in meeting those demands, so the people most at risk are those who have the least capacity, the very young, the elderly and people with pre-existing conditions. The fact it starts as a respiratory infection, causing inflammation, means it damages the normal defences against other bacteria increasing the risk of other infections or making pre existing lung conditions worse. It also increases the risk of broncospasm making breathing more difficult. These effects also impact on the hearts workload so people with pre-existing heart problems may experience a sudden worsening of their condition. As the virus moves beyond the lungs it is possible that inflammation in various organs like the brain or heart can cause life threatening symptoms though this is less common. People who already have atypical immune responses can have particular problems, this includes pregnant women, people taking certain drugs or with certain infections, people with diabetes etc. flu can also trigger excessive immune reactions as in the Spanish flu epidemic.
In most cases there is a clear association between people developing flu like symptoms, usually during particular flu seasons when the virus is circulating and then their condition suddenly deteriorating and them being hospitalised. Its common at this stage in developed countries to check for the presence of the virus for monitoring purposes. So there should be an obvious temporal association but there will always be outliers, the figures can't be considered totally accurate and are most likely underestimates, the numbers also tend to be well correlated with the overall infection rate and seasonal estimates of excess deaths.

 

[JamesPhD]

UK has flu rate at 21 per 100k
https://www.theguardian.com/society...gps-under-huge-pressure-as-deaths-soar-to-120

USA has flu rate of 27 per 100k
https://www.cdc.gov/flu/weekly/index.htm

So where are you getting your data?

But this is not representative of the typical flu level over the years. If it were an experiment, the 2017-2018 level you are quoting and matching with the US would be a far outlier for the UK. Is 27 per 100,000, the typical level?

 

[JamesPhD]

15k flu deaths in the UK. UK population is roughly 20% of US so within a few percentage points of the same mortality rate.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.te...level-40-years-experts-blame-ineffective/amp/

This is not representative of the flu level in the UK over the years. If, fact in this very article you quote it says its at least double the level of what it should normally be. So is this the typical level in the US or was there an epidemic? Because the UK would then typically have have half or less of the flu related deaths than the US, relative to population size.

 

[Greg Bernhardt]

Is 27 per 100,000, the typical level?

You're the one claiming it is not, can you back that up?

 

[BWV]

This is not representative of the flu level in the UK over the years. If, fact in this very article you quote it says its at least double the level of what it should normally be. So is this the typical level in the US or was there an epidemic? Because the UK would then typically have have half or less of the flu related deaths than the US, relative to population size.

The OP referred to US deaths from a bad flu season, not a typical level