Getting Ignored is Worst Type of Rejection

[kyphysics]

If you're in a relationship (even if just on the shallow or acquaintance level), getting rejected by being ignored is the most painful experience. It hurts much more than being told your faults or where there is disagreement. Chats or even loud arguments are at least two-way. You are acknowledged at least. Your sense of worth can only be finitely assaulted (with finite words) and there is an opportunity for rebuttal or even reconciliation and understanding.

When being ignored, none of those things are true. You are made to feel not even worthy of response to try to fix things. You're nothing. Your concerns do not matter. The one doing the ignoring is in the position of power and the one that is made to seem right. This treatment denies your existence and leaves you without answers or closure. The inability to obtain closure lasts for a long time and can go on and on and hurt way more than a finite, momentary fierce verbal barb launched your way. To me, it is a form of torture.

Do those who choose the ignoring you method of rejection know what it does to people? Are they sociopaths and extreme narcissists? Some may not know better, believing it is easier on you to not reject you outright vs. telling you the bad news. But, I cannot believe everyone is ignorant of its effects and how torturous it is.

It is something I've experienced maybe three very intense times in my life (the third being right now). I don't understand the type of person who would just flat out not respond to anything you say/write if you've got a pre-existing relationship. It's a form of mental torture in my opinion. And it hurts the soul and affects our health. The weird thing is, I know this in theory, yet I cannot let go. I feel that person ignoring me owes me some interaction based on human decency and a sense of closure. We have a working relationship, so it's not like we're strangers. I know in theory this hurts and its not fair and immature on some level, but that knowledge is of no use. I feel emotional pain from the lack of expected interaction needed for closure. How hard is it for a human being to simply let another human being interact to gain some sense of closure? Why treat them as unworthy of even acknowledgment? It's totally unnecessary and says something about the ignorer's mental make-up...

I'm curious if this treatment tends to happen more with psycho/sociopaths?

 

[mcastillo356]

Hi kyphysics!

It is something I've experienced maybe three very intense times in my life (the third being right now).

I've only experienced once, it's devastating. Sorry, I have no words. I actually think there aren't words

 

[hutchphd]

I think you need to take a longer view. In any rupture there will be surprises; things that make no sense from your perspective. i think you need to maintain your high regard for your partner in this process and assume that he/she is doing the best that they can. Just because they initiated the break does not mean that it was easy to do. It was necessary for them.I
If they cannot answer on your schedule, assume that they are doing the best they can and the answers to your questions are not obvious or too painful at the moment. Time will heal. This is a person who is important in your life and there is no "closure".- Life is Change. Psychopathology is not necessary as an explanation.
Absent electroconvulsive therapy, there is no "closure". Embrace your friends active and past. They are all still your friends

 

[Tom.G]

As an "oldster," I have come to recognize two distinct reasons (and sometimes a third or fourth reason) for someone ignoring an aquaintance.

1. They have a need to express something unpleasant to you and are working thru/trying to decide if it is worth presenting, and if so how/in what way.
2. For whatever reason, they have decided there is a basic incompatibility in personality/thought processes between the two of you and decided to end the relationship.
3. A combination of the above two where they are "punishing" you for a perceived slight.
4. They have a need to be dominant and try to control you by withholding their presence if you do not cater to there preferences.

An additional strange one that seems to work for some: Women are sometimes encouraged to start off a relationship bestowing lots of attention/affection, and then withdrawing slightly. This supposedly makes the target pursue them all the harder.

I realize this doesn't directly address your question of how to handle or accept the situation. We each have to come to our own terms with the problem. I do hope it helps your understanding a bit so that you can better handle the situation.

Good Luck!
Tom

 

[StevieTNZ]

This thread reminds me of Elliott. Little does he know I still know his cell number and he can expect a pleasant Xmas greeting from me on Saturday. I have not heard from him since 2019. He basically ghosted me in 2011 - all my attempts to communicate with him went ignored - emails, phoning. Except for one email 'if this is you calling from the +64 number, please stop. and please stop randomly emailing me'. Suddendly I was no longer allowed to contact him for some reason, despite the previous email message, things seemingly being okay between us.

Prick. But I still love him. Even after 10 years of emotional pain.

 

[DennisN]

I'd say one of the key questions in such situations is the intent of the other person.
I see many different possible reasons for breakdowns of communication, and it can be hard to evaluate over the internet.

But one important question is the intent of the other person, and what I basically mean is this:

Let's say person A refuses to communicate with person B.

(1) If the intent of A is to hurt person B, it is "aggressive" (well, actually passive-aggressive, see passive-aggressive behavior).

(2) If the intent is to protect person A, it is defensive.

(3) In complicated situations the intent could also be to protect person B, which is non-aggressive.

(4) And there are also situations where there is no apparent/clear intent. People are complicated and people can be strange.

See also Stonewalling.

As an "oldster," I have come to recognize two distinct reasons (and sometimes a third or fourth reason) for someone ignoring an aquaintance.

1. They have a need to express something unpleasant to you and are working thru/trying to decide if it is worth presenting, and if so how/in what way.
2. For whatever reason, they have decided there is a basic incompatibility in personality/thought processes between the two of you and decided to end the relationship.
3. A combination of the above two where they are "punishing" you for a perceived slight.
4. They have a need to be dominant and try to control you by withholding their presence if you do not cater to there preferences.

@Tom.G : excellent post, in my opinion.

 

[wukunlin]

I read the title and thought this thread is about job search.

 

[Astronuc]

If you're in a relationship (even if just on the shallow or acquaintance level), getting rejected by being ignored is the most painful experience.

I learned about that very quickly during my undergrad program, but I also learned to get over it. The other person has no obligation, unless there is some promise given. I did get the silent treatment, which was awkward and painful, but usually, after some time (might be years), the interactions would settle into a casual acknowledgment. Certainly, there were persons I'd never see again due to distance and/or different directions in life. And certainly, if this situation involves an intimate relationship, it is even more painful.

Do those who choose the ignoring you method of rejection know what it does to people? Are they sociopaths and extreme narcissists? Some may not know better, believing it is easier on you to not reject you outright vs. telling you the bad news.

One cannot read another's mind, but only discern with what is disclosed. Those of us not familiar with the personal details are not in a position to assess/judge others' motivations. From personal experience, there are those who wish to punish with the silent treatment, or it's a matter of not being comfortable dealing with the complications or emotional issues of the conflict.

Now consider what others have done in situations of 'anger' or 'disappointment':

WHENEVER Abraham Lincoln felt the urge to tell someone off, he would compose what he called a “hot letter.” He’d pile all of his anger into a note, “put it aside until his emotions cooled down,” Doris Kearns Goodwin once explained on NPR, “and then write: ‘Never sent. Never signed.’ ” Which meant that Gen. George G. Meade, for one, would never hear from his commander in chief that Lincoln blamed him for letting Robert E. Lee escape after Gettysburg.

Lincoln was hardly unique. Among public figures who need to think twice about their choice of words, the unsent angry letter has a venerable tradition. Its purpose is twofold. It serves as a type of emotional catharsis, a way to let it all out without the repercussions of true engagement. And it acts as a strategic catharsis, an exercise in saying what you really think, which Mark Twain (himself a notable non-sender of correspondence) believed provided “unallowable frankness & freedom.”

https://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/23/opinion/sunday/the-lost-art-of-the-unsent-angry-letter.html

It seems one needs an 'emotional catharsis'. In one's case, one could write a letter left unsent, or summarize in a short message, that one needs closure, and so one is closing out the relationship with the message. Leave it at that and let go. One could thank the other for the time and affection, wish the other well, and move on.

Engaging in an emotional roller-coaster, e.g., on-again, off-again, is discouraged. One has not mentioned a possible reconciliation, and perhaps the other party wishes to avoid that(?).

Edit/update:

People are complicated and people can be strange.

I would add and some are fickle.

 

[DennisN]

I wanted to add something that is not directly related to the topic, an addition to this quote of mine:

People are complicated and people can be strange.

I want to add this:

(1) People are different. Simple, and true.
(and probably most people reading this thread know this very well)

(2) We are our own baseline for "normal" (alternatively "you are your own baseline for "normal"").

That may be a bit trickier to think about, but it can very useful and enlightening to consider the implications of it (i.e. consider the baseline for yourself, and also others, and realize that the baselines aren't the same, and then consider what that means).

That quote (no 2) is something I've learned from elsewhere.

 

[Fervent Freyja]

This is a form of a cognitive detour, which is a response in communication that blocks resolution. People do it with different intentions. It’s most often unintentional and used by people that are immature or insecure. Toxic people use it to maintain control over the other person. It’s in the narcissist and sociopaths playbook for sure.

Omitting vital information in communication unintentionally is neglectful and intentionally omitting it is outright abuse. If someone does this to you intentionally, cut them out of your life. You cannot argue with someone that uses these tactics. It isn’t anything personal towards you. I now simply throw my hands in the air and outright tell them I know what they are doing and I refuse to play it. If they are unintentionally doing it, then let them know how it affects you- they may not realize that you need closure and that it feels hurtful to you. If you don’t address it then they will hurt other people and consider confronting them good for their growth.

 

[Averagesupernova]

Do those who choose the ignoring you method of rejection know what it does to people? Are they sociopaths and extreme narcissists?

This comment is a bit of a red flag to me. If someone ignores you and gets no feedback from you, and life continues on for them, I seriously doubt they are narcissistic. It seems to me you may be the narcissistic one here.
-
I'll give you a little real life story of something that happened to me a number of years ago. Someone I was friends with cut ties with me. A few words were exchanged, I shrugged my shoulders and said 'whatever'. A few months later I get a text from a number I didn't recognize that said: "I'll blink first, I miss you." I don't have a ton of friends and I honestly couldn't imagine who it was. My reply was: "Who is this?" and her reply to that was a slew of insults, cussing, name calling, use your imagination. In this case, I was the one doing the ignoring and she was the one obsessing. I was not wondering every day when will this person contact me and what could possibly be so bad about me and every other thing about me me me me. Me me me is all about a narcissist.

 

[StevieTNZ]

...I seriously doubt they are narcissistic. It seems to me you may be the narcissistic one here.

I would be very careful about what you call people. plane @ simple

 

[pinball1970]

If you're in a relationship (even if just on the shallow or acquaintance level), getting rejected by being ignored is the most painful experience. It hurts much more than being told your faults or where there is disagreement. Chats or even loud arguments are at least two-way. You are acknowledged at least. Your sense of worth can only be finitely assaulted (with finite words) and there is an opportunity for rebuttal or even reconciliation and understanding.

When being ignored, none of those things are true. You are made to feel not even worthy of response to try to fix things. You're nothing. Your concerns do not matter. The one doing the ignoring is in the position of power and the one that is made to seem right. This treatment denies your existence and leaves you without answers or closure. The inability to obtain closure lasts for a long time and can go on and on and hurt way more than a finite, momentary fierce verbal barb launched your way. To me, it is a form of torture.

Do those who choose the ignoring you method of rejection know what it does to people? Are they sociopaths and extreme narcissists? Some may not know better, believing it is easier on you to not reject you outright vs. telling you the bad news. But, I cannot believe everyone is ignorant of its effects and how torturous it is.

It is something I've experienced maybe three very intense times in my life (the third being right now). I don't understand the type of person who would just flat out not respond to anything you say/write if you've got a pre-existing relationship. It's a form of mental torture in my opinion. And it hurts the soul and affects our health. The weird thing is, I know this in theory, yet I cannot let go. I feel that person ignoring me owes me some interaction based on human decency and a sense of closure. We have a working relationship, so it's not like we're strangers. I know in theory this hurts and its not fair and immature on some level, but that knowledge is of no use. I feel emotional pain from the lack of expected interaction needed for closure. How hard is it for a human being to simply let another human being interact to gain some sense of closure? Why treat them as unworthy of even acknowledgment? It's totally unnecessary and says something about the ignorer's mental make-up...

I'm curious if this treatment tends to happen more with psycho/sociopaths?

I'm sorry mate. It's not torture its life.
People can decide to do want they want in terms of all that human stuff.
No can force anything, when it happens it happens.
It's pretty flimsy but it's all I have.

 

[hutchphd]

Having vast experience with failed relationships I know one thing for certain: the only part of the equation you can change is your own behavior. Any other consideration is a useless and often painful exercise in futility. The other person's shortcomings were not, are not, and never will be yours to control. Sadly if they are egregious and hurtful they may be even beyond your ability to reckon.
If someone truly chooses not to communicate, simply accept that as their prerogative and move forward. This person is a part of your life either actively or passively regardless of future events. Folks are seldom as good as we wish nor a bad as we may fear.

 

[Fervent Freyja]

This comment is a bit of a red flag to me. If someone ignores you and gets no feedback from you, and life continues on for them, I seriously doubt they are narcissistic. It seems to me you may be the narcissistic one here.
-

Hold on here. A person with NPD would not write this post. OP has a perfectly legitimate concern- this has happened to most of us. The last thing he needs to do is turn it around and blame it on himself.

Being self-absorbed is not equivalent to narcissism or selfishness. I personally am more self-absorbed than most, but that does not mean I am a bad person. When someone is victimized, then you better bet that person will seem self-absorbed- it’s human nature to react that way under stress.

 

[Averagesupernova]

Without knowing about intimate details here I can only stand by what I said.
-

When someone is victimized, then you better bet that person will seem self-absorbed- it’s human nature to react that way under stress.

Not sure how to come at the above quote since I'm not really sure exactly what you mean. But I have a real problem with someone claiming to being 'victimized' by me since I may choose to ignore them. That opens into a rabbit hole that I don't want to imagine. Manipulation to infinity by the one claiming to be victimized by someones desire to have no contact.
-
Having had experience with folks of various mental disorders I can tell you a true narcissist will not turn on the ignore permanently unless they are suddently getting their fix elsewhere. They reel you in and out. They NEED your attention. So if they choose to ignore as a way to manipulate and you simply accept, they lose unless they truly don't care. If they truly don't care, I don't think it can be called manipulation. Everyone has the power to prevent themselves from being manipulated.
-
You can claim that a narcissist can use the ignore tool as a way to manipulate, but you cannot claim that anyone who chooses to ignore is a narcissist.

 

[pinball1970]

Without knowing about intimate details here I can only stand by what I said.
-

Not sure how to come at the above quote since I'm not really sure exactly what you mean. But I have a real problem with someone claiming to being 'victimized' by me since I may choose to ignore them. That opens into a rabbit hole that I don't want to imagine. Manipulation to infinity by the one claiming to be victimized by someones desire to have no contact.
-
Having had experience with folks of various mental disorders I can tell you a true narcissist will not turn on the ignore permanently unless they are suddently getting their fix elsewhere. They reel you in and out. They NEED your attention. So if they choose to ignore as a way to manipulate and you simply accept, they lose unless they truly don't care. If they truly don't care, I don't think it can be called manipulation. Everyone has the power to prevent themselves from being manipulated.
-
You can claim that a narcissist can use the ignore tool as a way to manipulate, but you cannot claim that anyone who chooses to ignore is a narcissist.

I think (I know) that mobiles and social media have made this worse.
Remember when you learned all your friends phone numbers? Off by heart? We all went to the pub and talked to each other.
This came up in another thread.
If an estranged girlfriend took a risk and rang you then you would know who it was by the sound of her voice.
No landlines just telephones, no ghosting or texting or sexting.
It was a simpler time...

 

[jsgruszynski]

If you're in a relationship (even if just on the shallow or acquaintance level), getting rejected by being ignored is the most painful experience. It hurts much more than being told your faults or where there is disagreement. Chats or even loud arguments are at least two-way. You are acknowledged at least. Your sense of worth can only be finitely assaulted (with finite words) and there is an opportunity for rebuttal or even reconciliation and understanding.

When being ignored, none of those things are true. You are made to feel not even worthy of response to try to fix things. You're nothing. Your concerns do not matter. The one doing the ignoring is in the position of power and the one that is made to seem right. This treatment denies your existence and leaves you without answers or closure. The inability to obtain closure lasts for a long time and can go on and on and hurt way more than a finite, momentary fierce verbal barb launched your way. To me, it is a form of torture.

Do those who choose the ignoring you method of rejection know what it does to people? Are they sociopaths and extreme narcissists? Some may not know better, believing it is easier on you to not reject you outright vs. telling you the bad news. But, I cannot believe everyone is ignorant of its effects and how torturous it is.

It is something I've experienced maybe three very intense times in my life (the third being right now). I don't understand the type of person who would just flat out not respond to anything you say/write if you've got a pre-existing relationship. It's a form of mental torture in my opinion. And it hurts the soul and affects our health. The weird thing is, I know this in theory, yet I cannot let go. I feel that person ignoring me owes me some interaction based on human decency and a sense of closure. We have a working relationship, so it's not like we're strangers. I know in theory this hurts and its not fair and immature on some level, but that knowledge is of no use. I feel emotional pain from the lack of expected interaction needed for closure. How hard is it for a human being to simply let another human being interact to gain some sense of closure? Why treat them as unworthy of even acknowledgment? It's totally unnecessary and says something about the ignorer's mental make-up...

I'm curious if this treatment tends to happen more with psycho/sociopaths?

If you're in a relationship (even if just on the shallow or acquaintance level), getting rejected by being ignored is the most painful experience. It hurts much more than being told your faults or where there is disagreement. Chats or even loud arguments are at least two-way. You are acknowledged at least. Your sense of worth can only be finitely assaulted (with finite words) and there is an opportunity for rebuttal or even reconciliation and understanding.

When being ignored, none of those things are true. You are made to feel not even worthy of response to try to fix things. You're nothing. Your concerns do not matter. The one doing the ignoring is in the position of power and the one that is made to seem right. This treatment denies your existence and leaves you without answers or closure. The inability to obtain closure lasts for a long time and can go on and on and hurt way more than a finite, momentary fierce verbal barb launched your way. To me, it is a form of torture.

Do those who choose the ignoring you method of rejection know what it does to people? Are they sociopaths and extreme narcissists? Some may not know better, believing it is easier on you to not reject you outright vs. telling you the bad news. But, I cannot believe everyone is ignorant of its effects and how torturous it is.

It is something I've experienced maybe three very intense times in my life (the third being right now). I don't understand the type of person who would just flat out not respond to anything you say/write if you've got a pre-existing relationship. It's a form of mental torture in my opinion. And it hurts the soul and affects our health. The weird thing is, I know this in theory, yet I cannot let go. I feel that person ignoring me owes me some interaction based on human decency and a sense of closure. We have a working relationship, so it's not like we're strangers. I know in theory this hurts and its not fair and immature on some level, but that knowledge is of no use. I feel emotional pain from the lack of expected interaction needed for closure. How hard is it for a human being to simply let another human being interact to gain some sense of closure? Why treat them as unworthy of even acknowledgment? It's totally unnecessary and says something about the ignorer's mental make-up...

I'm curious if this treatment tends to happen more with psycho/sociopaths?

If you're in a relationship (even if just on the shallow or acquaintance level), getting rejected by being ignored is the most painful experience. It hurts much more than being told your faults or where there is disagreement. Chats or even loud arguments are at least two-way. You are acknowledged at least. Your sense of worth can only be finitely assaulted (with finite words) and there is an opportunity for rebuttal or even reconciliation and understanding.

When being ignored, none of those things are true. You are made to feel not even worthy of response to try to fix things. You're nothing. Your concerns do not matter. The one doing the ignoring is in the position of power and the one that is made to seem right. This treatment denies your existence and leaves you without answers or closure. The inability to obtain closure lasts for a long time and can go on and on and hurt way more than a finite, momentary fierce verbal barb launched your way. To me, it is a form of torture.

Do those who choose the ignoring you method of rejection know what it does to people? Are they sociopaths and extreme narcissists? Some may not know better, believing it is easier on you to not reject you outright vs. telling you the bad news. But, I cannot believe everyone is ignorant of its effects and how torturous it is.

It is something I've experienced maybe three very intense times in my life (the third being right now). I don't understand the type of person who would just flat out not respond to anything you say/write if you've got a pre-existing relationship. It's a form of mental torture in my opinion. And it hurts the soul and affects our health. The weird thing is, I know this in theory, yet I cannot let go. I feel that person ignoring me owes me some interaction based on human decency and a sense of closure. We have a working relationship, so it's not like we're strangers. I know in theory this hurts and its not fair and immature on some level, but that knowledge is of no use. I feel emotional pain from the lack of expected interaction needed for closure. How hard is it for a human being to simply let another human being interact to gain some sense of closure? Why treat them as unworthy of even acknowledgment? It's totally unnecessary and says something about the ignorer's mental make-up...

I'm curious if this treatment tends to happen more with psycho/sociopaths?

This is true about being ignored. However: you are NEVER owed reciprocation from anyone. It has to be earned. And the other party decides if you've earned or not - not you.

Vis-a-vis psychopaths and sociopaths: they are a different animal. They have no empathy for others (psychopaths are born this way; sociopaths develop into this way). What both can sometimes do is learn the essence of objection handling as a tool to exploit and goose their need for emotional control of others - they don't care to do it for the good of the other; it's all about them only and getting their "fix" at others' expense.

You should watch videos about this subject from Dr Ramani if you want to know more about psychopaths and sociopaths. In general, AVOID, AVOID, AVOID such people if you can. They are literally dangerous. Jeffrey Daumer and Ted Bundy dangerous.

So about "ignoring"...

So I'm one of those nerdy guys who ended up discovering I was good with people and became involved in selling technology products for a then Fortune 20 tech company in Silicon Valley. I got the best possible sales training that's ever existed and part of that is something called "objection handling".

Basically: how do you systematically and effectively deal with someone saying "No" even when everything about the problem they must solve for their job/life is saying "Yes" (because your product is the best one, the only one or just one worth considering). This probably sounds familiar.

One type of objection handling involves learning how to "read" the other person's emotional state and then trying to "Raise Them" to a state where they'll consider what you are saying. There are about 17 levels that range from negative to positive with a neutral level in the middle. The reason being that most objections start emotionally rather than rationally - you "know in your gut" that company Z makes crap products, for example, but is that objectively true?? Usually not. So you may object to even hearing about their products.

So you mention being "ignored". Guess what the lowest of the low of emotional engagement level is?

Indifference

That's as low as you can go. You've figured this out painfully. The hardest level to "raise" another's objection is when they are utterly indifferent and their "objection" is manifest as ignoring you.

It turns out that other negative emotional levels are ABOVE indifference. Which is fascinating. So emotions of "Fear", "Anger", etc. are above it. The way to think of it is that the person is more emotionally invested in you (or your pitch) if they are fearful or angry - literally they chosen to invest the emotional energy to be screaming at you in anger, compared to indifferently ignoring you. Indifference IS the lowest energy state of emotional investment! It's the "zero point" of emotions.

The irony is that many people seek to avoid getting someone angry - yet that's (eventually) essential to breaking someone out of indifference. There are ways of doing that "safely" but you must raise them through a level of anger to get them to ever agree with you. Again: FASCINATING.

So yes, indifference can be "weaponized" and if you are a normal sane person you should avoid that most of the time. I've used it to deal with "unrequited love/stalkers" in the past. But it's the nuclear option IMO. Anyone with a Cluster B mental disorder is prone to weaponizing indifference but that's part of their pathologies.

BTW the entire emotional level list is:

• +8- Elation (emotional investment = +16)
• +7 - Playful Modeling/Planning (emotional investment = +15)
• +6 - Eagerness (emotional investment = +14)
• +5 - Confidence (emotional investment = +13)
• +4 - Hopefulness (emotional investment = +12)
• +3 - Optimism (emotional investment = +11)
• +2 - Contentment (emotional investment = +10)
• +1 - Openness (emotional investment = +9)
• 0 - Neutral (emotional investment = +8)
• -1 - Anxiety (emotional investment = +7)
• -2 - Denial (emotional investment = +6)
• -3 - Anger (emotional investment = +5)
• -4 - Fear (emotional investment = +4)
• -5 - Panic( emotional investment = +3)
• -6 - Desperation (emotional investment = +2)
• -7 - Resignation (emotional investment = +1)
• -8 - Indifference (emotional investment = 0)

Typically you are "closing the deal" with anything +6 to +8 and have largely sold in sales. Also realize that in personal relationships (and business relationships in Asia), you do not always want to zip up to elation quickly - that's how stalkers are made.

Be aware when you are talking to someone, they can go up and down this list as the conversation proceeds and in response to what you say; you can "kill the deal" with the wrong reply. It takes practice to recognize the level of the other and use this effectively. You'll suck at it for a while.

So the rough process of objection handling is to:

1. notice/determine their emotional state based on words, body language, etc.,
2. verbally probe to confirm your assessment, and
3. find out what is making them feel that way, then
4. acknowledge the "truth" of their belief that #3 is true (aligning), and finally
5. offer some thing, fact or idea that "solves/negates" the objection (#3) and then go to #1 to see if you've "raised" (or lowered) them a level or two.

Wash. Rinse. Repeat.

And yes, these work in romantic situations. While in "objection handling" training (2 weeks long) we'd go to bars after dinner and try it out. It's sort of RP/PUA/Game but a bit more fine-grained. But because of that it takes some attention, focus and energy. Even though I use it for my job, I can not be "on" all the time with it.

Also be aware: it's a numbers game. The odds of raising someone at indifference are radically lower than raising someone from neutral or positive. Sometimes you have to cut your losses and move on.

Wash. Rinse. Repeat.