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alan123hk
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When and how can the gravitational wave be used for data communication, which the speed be much faster than the current technology by means of electromagnetic wave like 5G, 6G..etc wireless systems ?
LURCH said:Given all of this, I don’t think that gravitational waves will ever be usable for data transfer.
alan123hk said:When and how can the gravitational wave be used for data communication, which the speed be much faster than the current technology by means of electromagnetic wave like 5G, 6G..etc wireless systems ?
Thank you for your clear explanation, I know that it's almost impossible to achieve the idea now.LURCH said:Unfortunately, it takes an event with an enormous amount of energy (like two black holes colliding) to create ah gravitational wave that moves detection instruments 1/10,000 the size of an atomic nucleus. The best technology currently available requires 800 km of vacuum tubes and an equipment package worth more than the gross national product of most countries. Even then, it takes days of processing data to become “pretty sure” that a wave went by. Given all of this, I don’t think that gravitational waves will ever be usable for data transfer.
davenn said:and gravitational waves DONT propagate faster than light ... therefore they don't propagate faster than radio waves
That makes the problem even worse. Now we are not just interested in generating and receiving a signal at all, we need to generate and receive more rapidly than conventional broadcast, copper or fiber optic media.alan123hk said:actually I meant the upload/download speed, namely the data speed.
alan123hk said:I meant the upload/download speed, namely the data speed
Because the electromagnetic spectrum is scarce resource, it has almost been occupied and used up by humans, on the other hand gravitational wave spectrum is still unoccupied.Vanadium 50 said:Why do you think gravity wins over EM here?
sophiecentaur said:Relative merits as a communication medium: A single channel with a data rate of perhaps 100b/s for gravitational waves doesn't compare favourably with an available EM spectral bandwidth of a couple of hundred THz and excellent possible directivity.
That doesn't really properly address @Vanadium 50 's question. In your first post, you said faster, which should mean it has more inherent capacity, which it almost certainly does not. Perhaps more important, gravitational wave communication would be omnidirectional and un-containable, making interference between transmissions a bigger problem.alan123hk said:Because the electromagnetic spectrum is scarce resource, it has almost been occupied and used up by humans, on the other hand gravitational wave spectrum is still unoccupied.
russ_watters said:That doesn't really properly address @Vanadium 50 's question. In your first post, you said faster, which should mean it has more inherent capacity, which it almost certainly does not. Perhaps more important, gravitational wave communication would be omnidirectional and un-containable, making interference between transmissions a bigger problem.
Anyway, I think this is all moot because it doesn't appear to me that such communication will ever be feasible at all.
alan123hk said:gravitational wave spectrum is still unoccupied
alan123hk said:therefore, we can increase the data rate almost unlimitedly for a communication channel
alan123hk said:I agree that this discussion may be meaningless
LURCH said:Although gravitational waves will probably never be used as a data-carrying device, they may have a more indirect effect on information infrastructure. The mere fact that they exist, and have been observed, means that we now know of at least one type of wave that travels at light speed, and can pass through almost any obstruction with virtually no losses. The existence of one such wave brings up the possibility that there may be others. There’s no way to even speculate as to what those may be, but the properties themselves have been shown to exist, so perhaps they exist in some other phenomena that we have not yet thought of. Maybe even one that might be usable by us, in the distant future.
If I remember correctly (I haven't worked it out myself, that is above my pay grade!), gravitational wave propagation falls away faster than ##distance^2##, so from a purely engineering (cellular) perspective this property would be an advantage ;)russ_watters said:Perhaps more important, gravitational wave communication would be omnidirectional and un-containable, making interference between transmissions a bigger problem.
OK I can't find a reference for my first "claim". However, the second is a little less subtle, if you address the bidirectionality part ;)mfb said:@m4r35n357: The intensity drops with an inverse square law (it has to, conservation of energy) but the amplitude, what we measure, drops with 1/r only.
Transmitter and receiver are completely different objects for gravitational waves. One needs large changes in the quadrupole moment (huge masses whirling around), one needs to be as motionless as possible to detect tiny length changes.
What is there to address? Significant emitters of gravitational waves have nothing in common with sensitive detectors of gravitational waves. Everything that emits any relevant amount of gravitational waves is a horrible detector for them.m4r35n357 said:However, the second is a little less subtle, if you address the bidirectionality part ;)
I was just making a point about the practicality of bidirectional communications, and you obviously missed it! Never mind . . .mfb said:What is there to address? Significant emitters of gravitational waves have nothing in common with sensitive detectors of gravitational waves. Everything that emits any relevant amount of gravitational waves is a horrible detector for them.
and you missed the point being made that it isn't practicalm4r35n357 said:I was just making a point about the practicality of bidirectional communications, and you obviously missed it! Never mind . . .
No. I did not. I was making that point.davenn said:and you missed the point being made that it isn't practical
Klystron said:This thread is reminiscent of a thread on a different forum that suggested improving electron microscope resolution by replacing electrons with 'a smaller charged particle'; to wit, quarks. Confinement and the strong force among other issues convinced the OP that 'loose quarks' do not an electron make and the OP also learned about tunneling electron microscopes.
For communication purposes gravity waves would seem to suffer from the opposite problem: gravity is proportionately so much weaker than EM. Modulation to carry signal implies control of gravity at least as developed as electronics was say when vacuum tube amplifiers were invented?
Gravitational waves are ripples in the fabric of spacetime caused by the movement of massive objects, such as black holes or neutron stars. These waves were predicted by Albert Einstein's theory of general relativity and were first detected in 2015. In terms of data communication, gravitational waves can be used as a means of transmitting information due to their ability to travel through space at the speed of light without being affected by obstacles or interference.
Unlike radio waves or optical signals, which are forms of electromagnetic radiation, gravitational waves are a completely different type of wave that is not affected by traditional methods of data transmission. They are also able to travel through objects and do not require a direct line of sight, making them a potentially more reliable and secure form of communication.
One of the main limitations is the technology required to detect and manipulate gravitational waves. Currently, the equipment needed to detect and decode these waves is extremely complex and expensive. Additionally, the amount of information that can be transmitted through gravitational waves is still relatively small compared to other methods of communication.
Yes, there are several potential applications for using gravitational waves in data communication. For example, they could be used to transmit information between spacecraft or satellites without the need for physical connections. They could also be used in deep space communication, where traditional methods of data transmission are not feasible.
Scientists and engineers are currently working on developing new technologies and techniques to improve the detection and manipulation of gravitational waves for data transmission. This includes developing more sensitive detectors and finding ways to increase the amount of information that can be transmitted through these waves. Additionally, there are ongoing research efforts to explore the potential applications of using gravitational waves for data communication in various industries and fields.