Hacking Quantum Unbreakable Randomness Scrambler

[Varon]

According to Nick Herbert in Quantum Reality:

"Even if we believe (with the support of Bell's theorem) in universal superluminal links, we must face the possibility that such links are private lines accessible to the workings of nature alone, and are blocked to human use by an undecipherable scrambler built of perfect quantum randonmess"

What if quantum randomness is a just a default background. What if we can hack the scramber and make it to transmit signal? You will say special relativity forbids it. But isn't it the mere fact there is quantum non-locality and Bell's Theorem is violated (and experiments confirm it) somehow establish absolute space and time? Some actually want us to go back to Absolute Space and Time with Bohmian Mechanics and Lorentz Ether Theory (but without the ether) to rule the day. How do you refute this part about Absolute Space and time? Why is Absolute Space and Time impossible? I'd like to know this so I can totally eliminate this idea forever if it is 100% refuted. The arguments is that somehow behind the seeming lorentz invariance world is an absolute space and time behind it. Refute this.

 

[alxm]

What if quantum randomness is a just a default background.

What's that supposed to mean?

What if we can hack the scramber and make it to transmit signal? You will say special relativity forbids it.

No, logic forbids it. If there is any "superluminal communication" involved in entanglement, it does not transmit any usable information. Use the search function and you'll find dozens of threads explaining why quantum entanglement doesn't involve the transfer of any usable information, regardless of how it works.

But isn't it the mere fact there is quantum non-locality and Bell's Theorem is violated (and experiments confirm it) somehow establish absolute space and time?

No. Why?

Some actually want us to go back to Absolute Space and Time with Bohmian Mechanics and Lorentz Ether Theory (but without the ether) to rule the day.

Who are 'some'? I don't think there's any mainstream support whatsoever for abandoning special relativity, including among proponents of Bohmian mechanics. And the Bohm interpretation is explicitly non-local, so I don't see how you'd think it solves the problem of 'spooky action at a distance'.

How do you refute this part about Absolute Space and time? Why is Absolute Space and Time impossible? I'd like to know this so I can totally eliminate this idea forever if it is 100% refuted. The arguments is that somehow behind the seeming lorentz invariance world is an absolute space and time behind it. Refute this.

There's nothing to refute; you haven't made a falsifiable statement.

 

[Varon]

What's that supposed to mean?


No, logic forbids it. If there is any "superluminal communication" involved in entanglement, it does not transmit any usable information. Use the search function and you'll find dozens of threads explaining why quantum entanglement doesn't involve the transfer of any usable information, regardless of how it works.

Of course I didn't mean to use quantum randonmess to transmit information because you can't use randonmess to turn it non-random.

You have heard about Bohm Implicate Order and Wigner Consciousness approach. Some scientists (of the kind like Eccles, Stapp, Penrose, etc.) indirectly state what if consciousness can tap into the implicate order and we can use it to transmit signal millions of light years away. This is not yet refuted. Also maybe we can find something in quantum gravity to actually transmit signal not related to consciousness.

No. Why?


Who are 'some'? I don't think there's any mainstream support whatsoever for abandoning special relativity, including among proponents of Bohmian mechanics. And the Bohm interpretation is explicitly non-local, so I don't see how you'd think it solves the problem of 'spooky action at a distance'.


There's nothing to refute; you haven't made a falsifiable statement.

Bohmian Mechanics wave function is non-local and aware of configuration changes even billions of light years away. Non-locality seems to be the norm. We just assume no signal can be transmitted. But what if Wigner Consciousness and Bohm Implicate order, etc. can cause the transfer of signal. Perhaps beneath the lorentz invariance nature of the world there is a deeper layer that has preferred frame that establishes absolute space and time. This can make sense the non-locality of the quantum. Think about it. If Nature has this mechanism for universe wide non-locality. Is it not arbitrary or ad hoc that only randomness is use. It's like Nature did it to satisfy humans (by maintaning causality)? Well. It makes better sense that reality has absolute space and time where non-locality is the norm (here causality is retained as well). Perhaps quantum gravity or more accurately, quantum spacetime can give us clue to the mechanism.
What is your categorical argument that what I said is impossible?

 

[alxm]

You have heard about Bohm Implicate Order and Wigner Consciousness approach.

Not in professional/scholary contexts, no. Because those ideas have no mainstream support whatsoever. The only time I hear about them is in popular-scientific forums like this, from people who've been reading nonsense off the web or from Deepak Chopra or some other New Age snake-oil peddler.

There is no mainstream support whatsoever for the idea that quantum mechanics plays a unique role in human consciousness or vice-versa. Wigner did not support that idea himself either, he did research on environmental decoherence. Penrose's ideas have been rebuked, and aren't based on established quantum mechanics either.

Bohmian Mechanics wave function is non-local and aware of configuration changes even billions of light years away.

Bohmian mechanics does not have a different wave function from standard quantum mechanics in any respect, including this.

We just assume no signal can be transmitted.

No, as I said, logic already dictates that. The fact that an electron 1 billion light years away from one it's entangled with 'knows' that it has to be spin-up when the other was measured to be spin-down only gives the appearance of communication. That does not mean actual communication of any sort is taking place, and even if it was, no useful information could be relayed by that method.

What is your categorical argument that what I said is impossible?

You didn't say anything that made any sense whatsoever. You just name-dropped a bunch of random BS and demanded we 'disprove' it. I've already debunked quantum-consciousness BS quite a number of times here, so I'm not going to bother with that again. And whether that's true or false, it doesn't change anything at all regarding quantum non-locality, and you haven't made any kind of coherent argument to why it would.

You might as well be asking people to prove that it's impossible that the Flying Spaghetti Monster is behind it all. It'd be about equally relevant and equally backed up by evidence.

 

[Varon]

Not in professional/scholary contexts, no. Because those ideas have no mainstream support whatsoever. The only time I hear about them is in popular-scientific forums like this, from people who've been reading nonsense off the web or from Deepak Chopra or some other New Age snake-oil peddler.

There is no mainstream support whatsoever for the idea that quantum mechanics plays a unique role in human consciousness or vice-versa. Wigner did not support that idea himself either, he did research on environmental decoherence. Penrose's ideas have been rebuked, and aren't based on established quantum mechanics either.

Bohmian mechanics does not have a different wave function from standard quantum mechanics in any respect, including this.


No, as I said, logic already dictates that. The fact that an electron 1 billion light years away from one it's entangled with 'knows' that it has to be spin-up when the other was measured to be spin-down only gives the appearance of communication. That does not mean actual communication of any sort is taking place, and even if it was, no useful information could be relayed by that method.


You didn't say anything that made any sense whatsoever. You just name-dropped a bunch of random BS and demanded we 'disprove' it. I've already debunked quantum-consciousness BS quite a number of times here, so I'm not going to bother with that again. And whether that's true or false, it doesn't change anything at all regarding quantum non-locality, and you haven't made any kind of coherent argument to why it would.

You might as well be asking people to prove that it's impossible that the Flying Spaghetti Monster is behind it all. It'd be about equally relevant and equally backed up by evidence.

Ok. But why does Nature have to go through all the trouble to make entangled pair 100 billion light years away exchange randomness information. Is it not a waste of too much energy to make the correlations work? How is the randomness information conveyed in between A & B 100 billion light years distance apart?