Hallucinogenic mushrooms (don't read if this topic offends you)

[Mudvaynelethaldosage]

I have a few questions about hallucinogenic mushrooms. (I have never tried shrooms) I'm considering trying mushrooms while I'm in High School.
Can you OD? As I understand it, yes, but you have to eat an obscene amount to OD (varies by species I imagine)

Are there any permanent effects on your mind or body?

What is the right species for recreational shrooming?
thank you



Dark for fear of failure,
An inner gloom as wide as an eye and fermenting,
Roiling hate,
Death grip in my veins,
Unveiling rancid petals,
Flowering forth fowl nectar,
The space between a blink and a tear,
Deathblooms

 

[thunderfvck]

Psilocybe cubensis are the most often used species. But it really doesn't matter what kind you get, as long as it's psilocybin containing. Don't go for amanita though, if that what you're implying.

To OD I think you'd need to eat your body weight in dry mushrooms, or something like that. No one could handle that.

As for permanent effects it really does depend. On the body, no, there won't be any effects. However, there may be some alteration to your mind afterwards. Most often it's for the better but if you have a bad experience it probably would be for the worst.

www.erowid.org
www.shroomery.org

 

[Mudvaynelethaldosage]

Thank you for the info. I hope I don't have a bad trip if I do try. If it's actually the Psilocybin that makes you hallucinate, then you don't actually need the mushrooms, just that chemical, right? Sort of how you don't need marijuana, just THC, I think.

 

[TALewis]

Glad to see you're making good use of your high school years.

 

[Mudvaynelethaldosage]

yep. Wanna know what I really learned in high school? lol It's better that I party now, instead of when I have work. I don't care if I go into class with a hangover, but work is another story. The school district won't teach me anything because they're worried about my emotions, bull**** like that. I'm Emotionally Disturbed.

 

[Mudvaynelethaldosage]

oh ****, I'm a potty mouth

 

[BoulderHead]

Glad to see you're making good use of your high school years.

 

[TALewis]

I learned Physics and Calculus in High School, but I guess I was on a different graduation plan.

 

[thunderfvck]

You should stay in school. It pays off later on!

Yeah, it's psilocybin/psilocin that makes you trip. There's also another chemical in there but I don't remember the name of it. Different species of mushrooms will provide their own trip that is somewhat unique (in a subtle way) which is due to the variation of the chemicals in the mushroom. The same goes with weed, it may be the THC getting you high but I gaurantee if you take some pure THC as opposed to soking a joint, you'd notice the two have extremely different buzzes.

Edit: As for the whole bad trip thing, it's easy to avoid them. I hope you're emotionally stable, if not mushrooms and all psychedelic drugs are probably not for you. Start with a low dose. I'd take 1.5 grams my first time. Even two is okay. But two can be a bit too intense, so I'd really just start with 1.5 or even 1 if you feel you aren't comfortable. If you ever start feeling bad during the trip, change the environment you're in. Go somewhere else, do something else. That really helps.

As for "permanent" effects, there really aren't any. I remember the first time took mushrooms I perceived the world as a more beautiful place afterwards. Expect something to that nature in terms of an alteration of your mind.

 

[Kerrie]

eating too much can make you have severe stomach cramps and possibly even make you vomit. could even be worse if you focus on the fact that they do thrive in fields of cow feces.

 

[thunderfvck]

A lot of other mushrooms grow in dung, it's full of nutrients and is moist. Street mushrooms are typically grown by an individual. It's really easy, actually. www.shroomery.org if you're interested.

Yeah, the nausea. Gut rot as I've heard it called. Makes me stay away from mushroom trips actually. I find the nausea carries on throughout the trip and really upsets everything. I hear brewing them in a tea subsides these negative effects but I have not tried this personally; a loss in psilocybin would occur so you'd have to add a bit more. There are recipies on www.erowid.org, and most definitely on the shroomery. Psilocybin is pretty unstable I believe so you'd have to add it to hot water, and not boiling water...Anyways, check out the shroomery!

A very interesting drug though! Be sure not too take too much your first time, unless you have quite a bit of experience with hallucinogenics. It will most probably turn you off completely if you would have a bad trip.

 

[hitssquad]

PubMed information on psilocybin toxicity

I have a few questions about hallucinogenic mushrooms. Can you OD?

• http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/utils/lofref.fcgi?PrId=3141&uid=14534493&db=pubmed&url=http://www.e2med.com/pubmedredirect.cfm?Pii=MDOI-PM-09-2003-32-30-0755-4982-ART10 2003 Sep 20;32(30):1427-35.
  
  [Acute higher funghi mushroom poisoning and its treatment]
  
  [Article in French]
  
  Saviuc P, Flesch F.
  
  Unite de toxicologie clinique, CHU de Grenoble (38). PSaviuc@chu-grnoble.fr
  
  PRINCIPLE: The various mushroom poisoning syndromes are summarised together with elements underlining uncertainty and lack of knowledge. For each of the classical syndromes concerned, classified in delays inferior or superior to 6 hours, the toxins and their mechanisms of action, the main mushrooms responsible, the symptoms and their treatment are all presented. EARLY SYNDROMES: Characterised by early onset within 6 hours, these represent the majority of intoxications. There are 6 syndromes: gastro-intestinal (resinoid), muscarine (sudorien, cholinergic), pantherine (myco-atropine, anticholinergic), coprine (similar to the antabuse syndrome), narcotine (psilocybin, hallucinatory) and paxillus syndrome (exceptional). LATE SYNDROMES: Characterised by an onset after six hours, they regroup the phalloid syndrome that is responsible for 90 to 95% of deaths due to higher funghi mushrooms, the orellanine and gyromitrin syndrome and new syndromes identified over the past decade concerning acute renal failure with shorter onset than during the orellanine syndrome (Amanita proxima), erythermalgia (Clitocybe amoenolens), rhabdomyolysis (Tricholoma equestre) and central nervous system failure (Hapalopilus rutilans).
  
  PMID: 14534493

For more information on psilocybin toxicity, search PubMed for psilocybin.

 

[thunderfvck]

Psilocybin, psilocin and psilocybian mushrooms have very low toxicity - in tests with mice, doses up to 200 mg of pure psilocybin/kg of body weight have been injected intravenously without lethal effects (that would be 13 grams of pure psilocybin per average human (65 kg / 140 lbs). The ED50:LD50 ratio is 641 according to the NIOSH Registry of Toxic Effects; compare this with 9637 for vitamin A, 4816 for LSD, 199 for aspirin and 21 for nicotine. According to Leo Hollister, Jonathon Ott, and John W. Allen, one would have to consume their body weight in fresh mushrooms or eat approximately 19 grams of the pure chemical substance to bring on death. As long as Psilocybin mushrooms are properly identified, poisoning is not a problem.

http://www.erowid.org/plants/mushrooms/mushrooms_faq.shtml

There you have it, safer than aspirin.

 

[hitssquad]

The 7x difference in metabolism between rodents and humans

Psilocybin, psilocin and psilocybian mushrooms have very low toxicity - in tests with mice, doses up to 200 mg of pure psilocybin/kg of body weight have been injected intravenously without lethal effects (that would be 13 grams of pure psilocybin per average human (65 kg / 140 lbs).

http://www.erowid.org/plants/mushrooms/mushrooms_faq.shtml

13 grams is 65 times 200 mg, and is one-fifth of one-thousandth of 65 kg.

It appears that the authors are not taking into account the difference in metabolism between rodents and humans which is generally assumed by medical researchers to be a factor of seven in favor of the rodents (rodents have higher metabolisms and can therefore absorb relatively larger doses). A dose of 200 mg per kg for a mouse is equivalent to a dose of two grams for a 70 kg (150 lb) human.

 

[thunderfvck]

In EITHER case, I don't think anyone in their right mind would eat enough mushrooms to kill themselves.

Unless you're into comas.

 

[thunderfvck]

From erowid:

Oral Psilocybin Dosages
Threshold 2 mg
Light 2 - 4 mg
Common 4 - 8 mg
Strong 8 - 20 mg
Heavy 20 + mg


20 mg. 0.002 g. That's considered a heavy dose. This would be about 6 grams of dried mushrooms I believe. About 600 grams of dried mushrooms. The most I've done is 3.5 g, and that was extremely intense and hard to consume. I almost threw up. Now everytime I SMELL the stuff I nearly throw up. Anybody for 600 grams? Impossible. You'd have to have the pure psilocybin chemical to OD on it. But it's NEVER sold as that, unless you're a good friend of a chemist. And you'd have to be extremely retarded.

Just because it's an illegal drug doesn't mean it's toxic and liable to kill you. I'm sure aspirin would kill you in much smaller doses (speculating), however it's legal...Same with ethanol (aka alcohol)...Nicotine, don't even get me started..

 

[hitssquad]

From erowid:

Oral Psilocybin Dosages
Threshold 2 mg
Light 2 - 4 mg
Common 4 - 8 mg
Strong 8 - 20 mg
Heavy 20 + mg


20 mg. 0.002 g.

20 mg = 0.02 g.

 

[thunderfvck]

Whoops, typo, sorry.

The numbers still hold though...About 600 grams...I know that 6 grams is considered a "heavy" dose, so I assumed it would equate to about 20 mg..

 

[kirkmcloren]

Paul Stamets was the shroom guru. He is into medicinals these days and doesn't talk about illicit stuff anymore. Read his book.

SOme people prefer San Pedro cactus to shrooms. Most of the ebaysales are nonpsychoactive though. Ethnogens.com has some of the real stuff.

As for sickness you should fast for a day first. I also hear salt is to be avoided. In the right setting it can be wonderful. In a tense setting it should be avoided. Everything is more intense -- good or bad so pick the time, place and people.

 

[fafalone]

Personally I've always found the thought of eating a fungus that grows on feces to be unacceptable.
For your hallucinogenic experiences, I'd strongly recommend dipropyltryptamine (DPT)... the experience is far more intense, it's sold as a pure chemical, and most importantly it's legal. Only downside is that its very painful to insufflate, virtually inactive orally, and most people are opposed to injections. I've found doses around 50-75 delivered intramuscularly to be a profound positive experience with no severe side effects like nausea.

..and thunderfvck, I'll go ahead and get started on nicotine for you... by a number of clinical measures, it's the most deadly drug and the most addictive drug, neither property having anything to do with its legal status or the number of users. And incidently, opiates are the safest psychoactive drugs out there, with a high safety factor (LD50/ED50), and absolutely no permanent physical damage (most 5-HT based hallucinogens have very mild toxicity).

 

[thunderfvck]

Not all hallucinogenic mushrooms grow on fungus! Many mushrooms will grow on **** because of its high moisture/nutrient content. That includes mushrooms aside from those with psychedelic properties. Surely most of the mushrooms on the black market are grown by someone at home most likely using brown rice flour and vermiculite as the growing medium for the mycelium (mushroom "roots").

As for DPT and such, boy, that would be a great experience. Are you sure it's legal though? I mean, it has the tryptamine backbone and as a result it bears the hallucinogenic properties of many/all other tryptamines. I think DMT (dimethyltryptamine) would be the ultimate experience. Although my latest attempt with a mimosa hostilis rootbark extraction had failed, so I cannot see the experience for myself. It's a shame that most of these tryptamines are inactive orally as I'm not quite prepared for injections. DMT is also poorly active orally but can be smoked with much success. I wonder if the same is with DPT.

And I'm not sure if fasting would greatly help my nausea as I've done mushrooms on an empty stomach before...In the morning without having eaten any breakfast. Although it isn't quite the same I'm sure. Perhaps in the future when I'm more prepared to really have some truly spiritual experiences. Fasting is certainly a way to devote yourself to the experience, probably making it much more worth while.

And San Pedro, man, I can't wait to try that. Although I've heard of bad things due to the nausea associated with ingesting the cactus, I'd probably just do the extraction of the mescaline which is a very simple process believe it or not. I think the Pevurian Torch is the more potent (aside from peyote of course) of the mescaline-containing cacti.

Opiates! I have yet to have a true opiate experience, but plan on dosing with some oxycodone sometime this year. Although it may be true that they're safer than other drugs, it's a very painful truth that many fall into the addiction of the drug which is a very serious flaw! I think hallucinogenic drugs are the safest above all as they have no addiction potential (physically, but anything can be psychologically addictive), the experience is far more profound...and, well, they're really unlike anything else! No other drug comes close to the experience of a psychedelic drug. It's amazing the other dimension it opens up. No one, and I repeat, no one has really "lived" until they've tried a hallucinogen. It's out of this world!

Have you guys experience salvia? THAT is one hell of a drug. The trip doesn't last very long (and you'd be grateful for this!) but it is very intense and...very intense. Orally (tinctures are available, www.iamshaman.com[/url] has THE best salvia, but stay away from their other stuff, I suggest 10 X...) the trip will last a good 3-5 hours I believe. I have never done it orally but look forward to brewing up my own extract and tinctures. It would be far cheaper to buy the regular leaf in bulk and extract that with some quite simple procedures found on [url]www.erowid.org[/URL]. Ebay for the leaf of course!

Anyways, there's my two cents.

Long live the experience.

 

[fafalone]

DPT is technically illegal under the analog act (it's an analog of DMT, which is Schedule I... they're essentially the same as far as effect with smoked DMT vs. IV DPT); but it's sold over the internet (omegafinechemicals.com is one place) and there are no reports of anyone ever being prosecuted for selling the stuff, much less using it. You can snort it for a really really strong trip, I did that once and it went ok, but the second time it hurt so much the pain sent me into a bad trip for the first hour (and without going into details, I'll just say I'm quite experienced with using a variety of substances this way). To increase oral activity, you can take an MAOI such as harmaline, which is legal, but can potentially be dangerous.

"Not all hallucinogenic mushrooms grow on fungus"... mushrooms are by definition fungus, so I hope you mean feces... but I believe Psilocybe cubenis, the one of this discussion, does.

As for the addictiveness of opiates, you have to be using them non-stop 24/7 for a few weeks for a strong physical addiction to set in, and the vast majority of people who use them recreationally do not become addicted. It's the people who use them because they're bored or trying to escape their problems who tend to get addicted. Also, hallucinogenic drugs are uniquely dangerous because of their potential to release latent psychiatric conditions.

I'm one of the ~1/10 people who have absolutely no response to salvia, I smoked 1/2g of 20x and felt nothing.

 

[kirkmcloren]

And San Pedro, man, I can't wait to try that. Although I've heard of bad things due to the nausea associated with ingesting the cactus, I'd probably just do the extraction of the mescaline which is a very simple process believe it or not. I think the Pevurian Torch is the more potent (aside from peyote of course) of the mescaline-containing cacti.

Never tried the torch but I understand why it is called San Pedro. In English that is Saint Peter. He is said to hold the keys to Heaven.

As for really lived -- absolutely. shrooms and cactus are a sacrament, they are of the spirit.

And what is the essence of the spirit? What is worth dying for? What is worth living for? In all 3 the answer is the same. It is love.

 

[Kerrie]

Personally I've always found the thought of eating a fungus that grows on feces to be unacceptable.
For your hallucinogenic experiences, I'd strongly recommend dipropyltryptamine (DPT)... the experience is far more intense, it's sold as a pure chemical, and most importantly it's legal.

let's not "encourage" our young readers to try illegal substances here. we do have members under the age of 18 reading this.

 

[loseyourname]

But according to his post, that substance isn't illegal.

 

[fafalone]

let's not "encourage" our young readers to try illegal substances here. we do have members under the age of 18 reading this.

If you're in Maine or Belgium it's illegal... otherwise it's legal. If someone is going to try something, they're going to try it and there's no stopping them, all you can do is provide them with the information to do it as safely as possible; hence my advocation of a legal alternative. Also, I pointed out the dangers of this subject in reply 22.

 

[Kerrie]

But according to his post, that substance isn't illegal.

i was referring to mushrooms, i don't know anything of the DPT substance, but are there studies on it's effects yet?...as a mother of two, and a mentor who would like to encourage as many young readers as possible, i feel this subject is approaching the borderline in "advocating" a dangerous and illegal substance. period.

 

[Kerrie]

If you're in Maine or Belgium it's illegal... otherwise it's legal. If someone is going to try something, they're going to try it and there's no stopping them, all you can do is provide them with the information to do it as safely as possible; hence my advocation of a legal alternative. Also, I pointed out the dangers of this subject in reply 22.

sure people, kids will try it, but why advertise it in a public forum with our young readers? don't get me wrong, i have my own history with hallucinogenics, thus i know what i am talking about.

 

[Marijn]

Ok basic rule for trying drug for the first time:

USE A SITTER!
Get someone with experience with that junk to be with you when you take a trip.

Also in respect to mushrooms, everyone in a while someone stays in their trip.
So you take a remote risk of spending quite some time in "your own little reality" .

In general drugs are a bad thing.
Lately I've had my last bad experience with them to really stop with it. (being awake for several days after 1 gram of speed ain't recommendable).
Trust me, things are just as much fun without drug as they are with them.

If you're going to do it, take a sitter with you.
With mushrooms for two reasons, they can help you when you start to go bad, and they can prevent you from doing some dangerous things should you really get deep in your trip (seen ppl do some curious actions. the worst was a guys seeing gnomes and wanting to kill them with a welding torch, trust me a appartment interior isn't fire proof... :surprise:

 

[Monique]

sure people, kids will try it, but why advertise it in a public forum with our young readers?

I don't think it is appropriate material for the forum either.

 

[chroot]

I agree with Monique, this sort of discussion is not really appropriate for physicsforums.com. Instead, I will recommend http://www.bluelight.nu.

- Warren