Has the Definition of Whiteness Expanded in Media and Society?

[animalcroc]

1) On TV, people are always paired by their supposed race. It is taboo to do otherwise.

1) It appears that the notion of who is white has become more relaxed over the past decades to include almost everyone, with the one-drop rule still applying to those of black descent (TV illustrates this well).

3) People try hard to preserve their whiteness or emulate whiteness. This is seen by peoples choices in who they are willing to marry (or even date). For instance most Oriental women would prefer to procreate with a white man. Another example is Hispanic women, of whom I estimate 85% dye their hair to avoid having natural jet black hair.

 

[binzing]

3) People try hard to preserve their whiteness or emulate whiteness. This is seen by peoples choices in who they are willing to marry (or even date). For instance most Oriental women would prefer to procreate with a white man. Another example is Hispanic women, of whom I estimate 85% dye their hair to avoid having natural jet black hair.

Yeah, I think that's stupid, its like "You look better in your natural hair color, make-up stlye, etc." Why not have pride in your heritage?

 

[animalcroc]

3) People try hard to preserve their whiteness or emulate whiteness. This is seen by peoples choices in who they are willing to marry (or even date). For instance most Oriental women would prefer to procreate with a white man. Another example is Hispanic women, of whom I estimate 85% dye their hair to avoid having natural jet black hair.

Yeah, I think that's stupid, its like "You look better in your natural hair color, make-up stlye, etc." Why not have pride in your heritage?

I would actually take it a step further and say people should not even have pride in their heritage. People don't have a choice in being their race, nor is culture, history, or achievements that one might choose to associate with that race the creation of that individual. One can only be proud of something they do, and being born of a race does not meet that criterion... This pride thing is what many whites use to try to preserve their whiteness.

 

[binzing]

Yeah, good point, but every race has its things to be proud of.

 

[DaveC426913]

1) On TV, people are always paired by their supposed race. It is taboo to do otherwise.

It is not taboo. The fact is, you don't put something into the premise of a show unless there's a reason for it - especially something relatively uncommon.

If you put a wheelchair-bound person into a show, people are going to want to know why they're wheelchair-bound, and it had better be significant to the premise, or all it is is a distraction.

Same with cross-race relationships. You'll need to explain that, and have it be part of the storyline, otherwise it's just a distraction.

Shows and films are not meant to be an accurate depiction of life, they are meant to be a distillation of life. i.e. the storyteller must throw away anything that is not significant to the story they're trying to tell.

 

[animalcroc]

It is not taboo. The fact is, you don't put something into the premise of a show unless there's a reason for it - especially something relatively uncommon.

If you put a wheelchair-bound person into a show, people are going to want to know why they're wheelchair-bound, and it had better be significant to the premise, or all it is is a distraction.

Same with cross-race relationships. You'll need to explain that, and have it be part of the storyline, otherwise it's just a distraction.

Shows and films are not meant to be an accurate depiction of life, they are meant to be a distillation of life. i.e. the storyteller must throw away anything that is not significant to the story they're trying to tell.

Why would an interracial relationship need to be explained as opposed to a single-race one?

 

[slugcountry]

you're just playing devil's advocate

interracial relationships are far from the norm, so naturally one on TV would stand out.

 

[animalcroc]

you're just playing devil's advocate

interracial relationships are far from the norm, so naturally one on TV would stand out.

Interracial relationships are not far from the norm, but assuming they are, I don't believe TV producers or execs should insist on supposed racial homogeneity. These are interesting social issues that should be talked about.

 

[Jimmy Snyder]

For instance most Oriental women would prefer to procreate with a white man. Another example is Hispanic women, of whom I estimate 85% dye their hair to avoid having natural jet black hair.

Can you provide a citation for this?

 

[Evo]

1) On TV, people are always paired by their supposed race. It is taboo to do otherwise.

It's not taboo and it's been done, years ago as a matter of fact (1975) on The Jeffersons is one that instantly comes to mind. Their wealthy neighbors were a white man married to a black woman, they had two children, one that looked black (male) and a daughter that looked white. I've seen a number of shows over the years with mixed couples, and like Dave said, the show would need a reason in the storyline for it.

It's always a good idea to do some research on a topic before posting about it.

 

[DaveC426913]

Why would an interracial relationship need to be explained as opposed to a single-race one?

I addressed this quite explicitly in my post. Must I repeat myself?

Everything in a show is either significant or it is eliminated. It has nothing to with whether it should be in the show and everything to do with whether that's what the show is about.

 

[arunma]

1) On TV, people are always paired by their supposed race. It is taboo to do otherwise.

1) It appears that the notion of who is white has become more relaxed over the past decades to include almost everyone, with the one-drop rule still applying to those of black descent (TV illustrates this well).

I don't know if it's quite "taboo" anymore, as Evo has already pointed out. Alas, I have seen a surprising lack of interracial relationships in television shows. Maybe it's just that I don't watch a lot of TV, but I notice that even in modern American society, interracial relationships are seen as somehow abnormal. And this is quite unfortunate.

3) People try hard to preserve their whiteness or emulate whiteness. This is seen by peoples choices in who they are willing to marry (or even date). For instance most Oriental women would prefer to procreate with a white man. Another example is Hispanic women, of whom I estimate 85% dye their hair to avoid having natural jet black hair.

Incidentally, may I ask what constitutes emulating "whiteness?"

 

[devil-fire]

Yeah, good point, but every race has its things to be proud of.

i would think it is more accurate to say every culture has something to be proud of. it sounds strange to me to find pride in the whiteness or blackness of one's skin.

 

[turbo]

i would think it is more accurate to say every culture has something to be proud of. it sounds strange to me to find pride in the whiteness or blackness of one's skin.

It is more appropriate to find pride in one's own behavior rather than one's culture or race. That's about as rational in getting all pumped up because your favorite team of millionaire athletes won some title.

 

[animalcroc]

Can you provide a citation for this?

I live at the Tijuana-San Diego border and 96% of people here are Mexican, so I see first hand.
The racial dynamics of society is observable on a day-to-day basis. At UCSD 40% of the population is Oriental so there too I am able to make observations.

 

[animalcroc]

It's not taboo and it's been done, years ago as a matter of fact (1975) on The Jeffersons is one that instantly comes to mind. Their wealthy neighbors were a white man married to a black woman, they had two children, one that looked black (male) and a daughter that looked white. I've seen a number of shows over the years with mixed couples, and like Dave said, the show would need a reason in the storyline for it.

It's always a good idea to do some research on a topic before posting about it.

I don't understand why you believe that showing interracial couples on TV needs special justification. I don't see logic there. And I do do "research" in sociology. The examples you provided only account for 0.5% of what's on the air so my posting makes sense.

 

[animalcroc]

I addressed this quite explicitly in my post. Must I repeat myself?

Everything in a show is either significant or it is eliminated. It has nothing to with whether it should be in the show and everything to do with whether that's what the show is about.

No, you weren't explicit. Going out of one's way to ensure a TV set is racially homogenous is significant. I'd rather expend less energy by taking in all good actors.

 

[animalcroc]

Incidentally, may I ask what constitutes emulating "whiteness?"

In China, billboards show Chinese with wider eyes, lighter skin, and in general with less Chinese features. The billboards use these "whiter Chinese" to show how people should look like, and it works. That's just one example.

 

[Danger]

I must admit that I have a sexual preference for Asian (particulary Korean) physical types, but that is simply a matter of them tending to combine a lot of attributes that I care for. There's nothing particularly racial about it; it's just aesthetics. I got the same mix from both parents (which is really weird, since they came from opposite sides of the country): 1/4 highland Scots; 1/4 lowland Scots; 1/4 English (which I try to ignore); and 1/4 Irish (but since that's Black Irish, I consider myself part Spanish, and my physiology supports that). There is also a touch of African on my mother's side, if she can be believed. There is no question that a lot of my family by marriage is black.
W is Cree/Scots Meti; she looks to be Inuit, and most people think that she's Chinese.
What really pisses me off about commercials around here (other than their initial presence) is that they always show same-race couples. Why can't they just tell the bigots to shove it and go ahead with having a Caucasion woman and an Asian or Afro-Canadian (or Yank) man being a normal couple. From my standpoint, I steer my business away from the stereotypical ad scene.

 

[Jimmy Snyder]

I live at the Tijuana-San Diego border and 96% of people here are Mexican.

Do you have a citation for that? Do you have a citation for the other two statistics?

 

[DaveC426913]

No, you weren't explicit.

I did give an explicit reason. You are choosing to follow your own logic, ignoring my post but that doesn't mean I didn't give an explanation.

(One must wonder if you were asking your question because you wanted to learn something, or because you like the sound of your own voice.)

I'd rather expend less energy by taking in all good actors.

Case in point: you seem less interested in why it's done than in what you would do.

Going out of one's way to ensure a TV set is racially homogenous is significant.

"Going out of one's way to ensure that EVERY detail of a show's premise is significant" is the ONLY way it's done.

The point is, only some shows are interested in exploring inter-racial relationships.

I'll say it again, entertainment is not meant to be a representation of real life; entertainment is meant to a distillation of real life. You tell the story you want to tell and eliminate distractions.

 

[Gokul43201]

I did give an explicit reason.
...

"Going out of one's way to ensure that EVERY detail of a show's premise is significant" is the ONLY way it's done.
...
I'll say it again, entertainment is not meant to be a representation of real life; entertainment is meant to a distillation of real life. You tell the story you want to tell and eliminate distractions.

What is not explicit in your explanation is why homogeneous relationships require no special premise, but heterogeneous ones do. Heck, a heterogeneous relationship is a distraction to you? How strange!

 

[Evo]

I think we also need to remember inter-racial relationships may be common in some segments of society, but it is almost unheard of in others, for example, where I live. So maybe to Animalcroc it's somewhat common, to me it's almost non-existant. So, it depends on what the social situation is for the tv show. Why would you write inter-racial relationships into a story if it is not significant to the story line? I could say the same thing about gay couples depicted on tv, there are a lot of gay couples here, so I could complain that it's unrealistic not to portray 50% of couples as gay.

 

[Danger]

it is almost unheard of in others, for example, where I live.

It absolutely never crossed my mind that it was unusual anywhere in the civilized world.
If I were writing a TV show or movie (and I have written a few), there would be no specification as to the race of any cast member. The sex thereof would have to be delineated simply for the sake of keeping dialogue and some story situations on track. Whoever tested as best for the role would get it, even if s/he was from another planet.

 

[DaveC426913]

What is not explicit in your explanation is why homogeneous relationships require no special premise, but heterogeneous ones do. Heck, a heterogeneous relationship is a distraction to you? How strange!

Not to me, to the viewing audience, which is considered as relatively conservative by show writers.

 

[DaveC426913]

It absolutely never crossed my mind that it was unusual anywhere in the civilized world.
If I were writing a TV show or movie (and I have written a few), there would be no specification as to the race of any cast member. The sex thereof would have to be delineated simply for the sake of keeping dialogue and some story situations on track. Whoever tested as best for the role would get it, even if s/he was from another planet.

This would represent a serious gap in considering the impact on the viewing audience.

I would bet that the population of PF does not represent a cross-section of the N. American TV-viewing audience. I would bet that we are on the far-end of the bell curve for having cosmopolitan sensibilities (and thus would not see any significance to an inter-racial relationship).

 

[Danger]

This would represent a serious gap in considering the impact on the viewing audience.

I suppose that you're right. My thinking is that the world is full of idiots; either pretend to be stupid to fit in, or screw 'em. I always opt for the latter.

 

[DaveC426913]

I suppose that you're right. My thinking is that the world is full of idiots; either pretend to be stupid to fit in, or screw 'em. I always opt for the latter.

Heh. But not really fair or accurate.

If the viewing audience is weighed heavily in favour of (for example) Amercian Midwest rural viewers, it is hardly a reflection on their intelligence if they have not been exposed to the same amount of diversity in culture as those in more cosmopolitan regions.

 

[Danger]

They do have TV's and print media, don't they?
And I don't believe for a second that any straight man of any race would turn down a relationship with Halle Berry or Linda Park or Jennifer Garner or (insert favourite celeb here) because of their skin being different. (Although the fact that they're actors indicates that they're probably nuts. ) Same for a straight woman regarding Jessie L. Martin or Jett Li or Matt Damon.
The use of celeb names is just for common reference; I know plenty of people in everyday life who are just as attractive as any of those mentioned, and they come in all colours. How anyone could base an opinion on that is absolutely beyond my imagination. (I honestly am trying here, but I really just can't conceive of it.)

 

[Gokul43201]

So how would a typical rural, midwesterner respond to being shown an inter-racial couple on TV? I've got no idea, so I'd like to hear from someone that does.

Jet Li, Danger? Really?

 

[Danger]

Jet Li, Danger? Really?

Hey, I'm straight, but I'm not blind. I don't think that a woman would have to put a bag over his head. (Although I once knew a woman who was so ugly that I had to double-bag her; one over my own head in case hers fell off...)

 

[animalcroc]

Do you have a citation for that? Do you have a citation for the other two statistics?

I live there, and no citation needed but I'll include this link which shows demographic make up of one school in my neighborhood:

http://www.sysd.k12.ca.us/Schools/sarcs/AccountabilityReportSunset.pdf

As for the others:
http://www.8asians.com/2007/08/10/why-asian-girls-go-for-white-guys/

http://modelminority.com/article242.html

Don't rely on citations for everything or else you'll never get anywhere. Make your own citations from first-hand experience.

 

[animalcroc]

Not to me, to the viewing audience, which is considered as relatively conservative by show writers.

That answered it.

 

[animalcroc]

I suppose that you're right. My thinking is that the world is full of idiots; either pretend to be stupid to fit in, or screw 'em. I always opt for the latter.

Couldn't agree with you more.
...hey, it's nice to see you comment on my posting (remember me?)

 

[Evo]

So how would a typical rural, midwesterner respond to being shown an inter-racial couple on TV? I've got no idea, so I'd like to hear from someone that does.

It's your moral majority, the entire Bible Belt which tv producers (for the mainstream networks) realize is their advertising bread and butter. It's funny, Black and Asian isn't consider too shocking (there is a black and asian couple on the popular series "Men in Trees"), Hispanics and Asian you don't see since those two groups tend not to like each other. The tv show Bones shows a romance between and asian woman and a white mail. White and black couples, usually on crime scene shows, gay couples more affluent, but still not mainstream shows,