Help identifying these early American Indian tools please

[dlgoff]

I was looking through my arrow heads so I could add another row on this board: https://www.physicsforums.com/attachments/img_3670-jpg.290343/
and found this tool?:

I'm not sure what it was used for, maybe for scraping? It was found with the arrowheads in Arkansas.

Also found there was this, what I think it is an American Indian stone stick ball (edit: I measured it's diameter at just about 3.5 cm), but not sure what it is:

Anyone have any knowledge of these? Thanks for any help.

 

[.Scott]

I have no knowledge, but I might use that first one as a pestle - for example, for milling corn.

 

[Tom.G]

Another WAG (Wild A** Guess), for the first one my wife suggested a hoe. The groove near the top edge could be wear from a binding to a stick.

 

[dlgoff]

for the first one my wife suggested a hoe. The groove near the top edge could be wear from a binding to a stick.

Yes, it does look like it could be a hoe albeit a small one; it measures about 3.5 cm in length with the widest blade side at about 3 cm. Please thank your wife for me.

 

[Tom.G]

3.5cm?? Well, maybe if they had a Bonsai garden.

edit:
OK, a recovery attempt. A hoe to dig a small hole to plant individual seeds (beans maybe)?

I we will quit now... this is getting too far out.

 

[jim mcnamara]

Context (exact location and depth, for example) is everything when it comes to identifying archeological materials. I live in New Mexico. One of my neighbors on the reservation where we lived made items very like the stone in the first picture. He "aged" the stone in sheep dung + water + lime for about six weeks. I think they were sold at Wrights Indian Art in Albuquerque back in the 1980's. Henry Rosetta made some with turquoise inlay.

I am not asserting anything wrong. Those can be real artifacts - have no way to help decide.

My guess: it is like a bannerstone - see this page:

https://collections.gilcrease.org/s...ndle:collection&f[2]=im_field_department:1389

 

[dlgoff]

Context (exact location and depth, for example) is everything when it comes to identifying archeological materials. I live in New Mexico. One of my neighbors on the reservation where we lived made items very like the stone in the first picture. He "aged" the stone in sheep dung + water + lime for about six weeks. I think they were sold at Wrights Indian Art in Albuquerque back in the 1980's. Henry Rosetta made some with turquoise inlay.

I am not asserting anything wrong. Those can be real artifacts - have no way to help decide.

My guess: it is like a bannerstone - see this page:

https://collections.gilcrease.org/search/site/?f[0]=bundle:museum_object&f[1]=bundle:collection&f[2]=im_field_department:1389

I've never heard of a bannerstone before. The thing I have has no hole in it like in your link. Later, I'll post an image with the exact location and depth, etc. measurements. Thanks for helping me figure this one out.

edit: this stone was definitely found in Arkansas with the other arrowheads I've shown. So it's not from an antique store and certainly not from Albuquerque.

 

[Rive]

It was found with the arrowheads in Arkansas.

Just based on that context and the size, maybe it's to be fixed on a short stick to peck those arrowheads?
Kind of ancestor of all jewelry hammers

Ps.: after some googlework, grooved axes, 'miniature' edition

 

[jim mcnamara]

Contact U of Arkansas Anthropology. Try Wes Stoner.


University of Arkansas
Department of Anthropology
330 Old Main
Fayetteville, AR 72701
wdstoner@uark.edu

Try a simple contact asking for a reference to faculty who know about pre-Columbian artifacts.

If you get a response, forward your nice pictures and location data to that person. Might be Wes.

 

[dlgoff]

Contact U of Arkansas Anthropology. Try Wes Stoner.


University of Arkansas
Department of Anthropology
330 Old Main
Fayetteville, AR 72701
wdstoner@uark.edu

Try a simple contact asking for a reference to faculty who know about pre-Columbian artifacts.

If you get a response, forward your nice pictures and location data to that person. Might be Wes.

I'll give that a try. Thank you for this contact info. I'll let you know here when I am able to make contact.

 

[dlgoff]

Ps.: after some googlework, grooved axes, 'miniature' edition

More information. Nice. This could be it.

 

[dlgoff]

Just based on that context and the size, maybe it's to be fixed on a short stick to peck those arrowheads?
Kind of ancestor of all jewelry hammers

Ps.: after some googlework, grooved axes, 'miniature' edition

Using this, I did a little more googleing and found these notched stone net sinkers. They look similar:

Size is good also.

 

[Rive]

Using this, I did a little more googleing and found these notched stone net sinkers. They look similar:

Depending on the area (was there some water bodies in the area?) this would be a more fitting explanation than a tool (for a tool, there would be chipping on the edge).

 

[dlgoff]

Depending on the area (was there some water bodies in the area?) this would be a more fitting explanation than a tool (for a tool, there would be chipping on the edge).

It and the arrowheads were found near Cave City, Arkansas and there are no bodies of water that I know about. But the last time I was there was 50 or 60 years ago. Here's what Wikipedia says about Cave City:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cave_City,_Arkansas

edit- this is one thing they write about water:

Cave City is located at 35°56′53″N 91°33′3″W (35.948087, -91.550952).[5] The town is centered on, and partially located above, the https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Crystal_River_(Arkansas)&action=edit&redlink=1, an underground body of water located in the multi-room https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Crystal_River_Cave&action=edit&redlink=1, for which the town is named. The beginning and ending of the water source has never been determined.

 

[Rive]

I've just checked the map and it's not some arid area and there are some smaller lakes and creeks there. Likely (?) there was water around in the past too.
So presence of fishing tools is indeed a possibility.
I would say you just nailed it

 

[dlgoff]

I would say you just nailed it

I think so too. Thanks for your help.

 

[dlgoff]

I think so too. Thanks for your help.

I'd like to thank @Greg Bernhardt for creating https://www.physicsforums.com/, as this identification wouldn't have been possible without this excellent site.

 

[dlgoff]

I'll give that a try. Thank you for this contact info. I'll let you know here when I am able to make contact.

@jim mcnamara

I think I've figured out what it is, so won't have to make this contact.

 

[OCR]

Try Wes Stoner.

Sounds like the perfect person to look at rocks. . . .
.

 

[StatGuy2000]

@dlgoff , I was checking the Wikipedia entries for the history of Arkansas and it mentions several historical periods for Native American artifacts, including the following:

1. The Archaic period, roughly corresponding to 8000 BC to 1000 BC

2. The Woodland period, roughly corresponding from 1000 BC to 1000 CE

3. The Mississippian culture, roughly corresponding from 1000CE to early European contact

It would be interesting to determine roughly when the artifacts you've identified can be dated to, as that would determine what purposes these tools were used for. Archaeologists at the University of Arkansas may be of assistance.

 

[dlgoff]

@dlgoff , I was checking the Wikipedia entries for the history of Arkansas and it mentions several historical periods for Native American artifacts, including the following:

1. The Archaic period, roughly corresponding to 8000 BC to 1000 BC

2. The Woodland period, roughly corresponding from 1000 BC to 1000 CE

3. The Mississippian culture, roughly corresponding from 1000CE to early European contact

It would be interesting to determine roughly when the artifacts you've identified can be dated to, as that would determine what purposes these tools were used for. Archaeologists at the University of Arkansas may be of assistance.

It would be interesting. Thanks for the info. I've got a lot going on right now, but will make contact with the University of Arkansas when I am free to do so.

 

[BillTre]

Here is a CN story about a 1,200 year old dugout canoe found in Wisconsin.
https://www.cnn.com/2021/11/05/us/canoe-wisconsin-lake-mendota-scn-trnd/index.html
It was associated with some similar rocks:

Skibo said the canoe had net sinkers, which were simple stones that were notched and put on the end of nets for fishing, which further verified to him the canoe was quite old.

 

[dlgoff]

Here is a CN story about a 1,200 year old dugout canoe found in Wisconsin.
https://www.cnn.com/2021/11/05/us/canoe-wisconsin-lake-mendota-scn-trnd/index.html
It was associated with some similar rocks:

Thanks for the link. I don't see anywhere the rocks can be seen though.

 

[dlgoff]

Here is a CN story about a 1,200 year old dugout canoe found in Wisconsin.
https://www.cnn.com/2021/11/05/us/canoe-wisconsin-lake-mendota-scn-trnd/index.html
It was associated with some similar rocks:

I think that these net sinkers are the ones I showed in post #12:

from, https://archeology.uark.edu/artifacts/netsinkers/

 

[BillTre]

Thanks for the link. I don't see anywhere the rocks can be seen though.

Yes, just pictures of the people and the canoe as I recall.