Help with a few annoying exterior derivatives

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In summary, the conversation discusses computations involving exterior derivatives and wedges, as well as the pull-back of forms. It also touches on the concept of push-forward and coordinates on a manifold. The goal is to prove certain identities and manipulate expressions to satisfy them.
  • #1
etotheipi
Homework Statement
Given ##\omega \in \Lambda^p(M)##, ##\eta \in \Lambda^q(M)##, show that $$\begin{align*}
\mathrm{i)} \quad &d(d\omega) = 0 \quad \\
\mathrm{ii)} \quad &d(\omega \wedge \eta) = (d\omega) \wedge \eta + (-1)^p \omega \wedge d\eta \quad \\
\mathrm{iii)} \quad &d(\varphi^* \omega) = \varphi^* (d\omega)
\end{align*}
$$with ##\varphi: M \rightarrow N## a map between ##M## and ##N##.
Relevant Equations
N/A
I'm not very comfortable with these computations, so go easy on me! :smile: $$
\begin{align*}
[d(d\omega)]_{\mu_1 \dots \mu_{p+2}} &= (p+2) \partial_{[\mu_1} (d\omega)_{\mu_2 \dots \mu_{p+2}]} \\
&= (p+1)(p+2) \partial_{[\mu_1} \partial_{\mu_2} \omega_{\mu_3 \dots \mu_{p+2}]}
\end{align*}$$The last part should be zero, since every term cancels with a corresponding term of opposite sign with the indices on the mixed partial derivative switched (due to the anti-symmetrisation). For the next one, I tried to write both sides explicitly$$
\begin{align*}
[d(\omega \wedge \eta)]_{\mu_1 \dots \mu_{p+q+1}} &= (p+q+1) \partial_{[\mu_1} (\omega \wedge \eta)_{\mu_2 \dots \mu_{p+q+1}]} \\
&= \frac{(p+q+1)(p+q)!}{p!q!} \partial_{[\mu_1} \omega_{\mu_2 \dots \mu_{p+1}} \eta_{\mu_{p+2} \dots \mu_{p+q+1}]}
\end{align*}$$then, since ##(d\omega)_{\alpha_1 \dots \alpha_{p+1}} = (p+1) \partial_{[\alpha_1} \omega_{\alpha_2 \dots \alpha_{p+1}]}## and ##(d\eta)_{\beta_1 \dots \beta_{q+1}} = (q+1) \partial_{[\beta_1} \eta_{\beta_2 \dots \beta_{q+1}]}##, we have$$
\begin{align*}
[(d\omega) \wedge \eta]_{\mu_1 \dots \mu_{p+q+1}} &= \frac{(p+q+1)!}{(p+1)!q!} d\omega_{[\mu_1 \dots \mu_{p+1}} \eta_{\mu_{p+2} \dots \mu_{p+q+1}]} \\
&= \frac{(p+q+1)!}{p! q!} \partial_{[\mu_1} \omega_{\mu_2 \dots \mu_{p+1}} \eta_{\mu_{p+2} \dots \mu_{p+q+1}]}
\end{align*}$$and likewise$$[\omega \wedge (d\eta)]_{\mu_1 \dots \mu_{p+q+1}} = \frac{(p+q+1)!}{p!q!} \omega_{[\mu_1 \dots \mu_{p}} \partial_{\mu_{p+1}} \eta_{\mu_{p+2} \dots \mu_{p+q+1}]}$$
If we multiply the last one by ##(-1)^p## and add it to the one before, I'm not really sure how to manipulate it into the form of (ii)? Thanks for any help!
 
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  • #2
You can consult the book "Differential forms with Applications to the Physical Sciences, by Harley Flanders, Ed. Dover, I see that it solves that exercises.
 
  • #3
etotheipi said:
For the next one, I tried to write both sides explicitly$$
\begin{align*}
[d(\omega \wedge \eta)]_{\mu_1 \dots \mu_{p+q+1}} &= (p+q+1) \partial_{[\mu_1} (\omega \wedge \eta)_{\mu_2 \dots \mu_{p+q+1}]} \\
&= \frac{(p+q+1)(p+q)!}{p!q!} \partial_{[\mu_1} \omega_{\mu_2 \dots \mu_{p+1}} \eta_{\mu_{p+2} \dots \mu_{p+q+1}]}
\end{align*}$$then, we have$$
\begin{align*}
[(d\omega) \wedge \eta]_{\mu_1 \dots \mu_{p+q+1}} &= \frac{(p+q+1)!}{(p+1)!q!} d\omega_{[\mu_1 \dots \mu_{p+1}} \eta_{\mu_{p+2} \dots \mu_{p+q+1}]} \\
&= \frac{(p+q+1)!}{p! q!} \partial_{[\mu_1} \omega_{\mu_2 \dots \mu_{p+1}} \eta_{\mu_{p+2} \dots \mu_{p+q+1}]}
\end{align*}$$
Watch out. Look at your two expressions which start with ##\partial_{[\mu_1 \dots]}##. They are identical, which does not make sense since in the first case the derivative should act on everything whereas in the second case it should act only on the ##\omega##. Do you see how to fix this?
 
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  • #4
You can check all the formulas for monomials by a direct calculation in local coordinates
 
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  • #5
I think you're making your life harder by interchanging between the notation of forms, and partial derivatives. I'll suggest writing ##\omega = a dx^i## and ##\eta = b dx^j## where a and b are 0-forms (fancy terminology for functions!).

Now, for ii), it becomes ##d (a dx^i \wedge b dx^j) = d (ab dx^i \wedge dx^j)...## and you can go from there [to make this proof easy, ask yourself what does ##d \omega## and ##d\eta## look like in this notation]

HINT: do you think the ##(-1)^p## comes from properties of the exterior derivative, or potentially another "operator" in the mix?
 
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  • #6
nrqed said:
Watch out. Look at your two expressions which start with ##\partial_{[\mu_1 \dots]}##. They are identical, which does not make sense since in the first case the derivative should act on everything whereas in the second case it should act only on the ##\omega##. Do you see how to fix this?

Ahh, thanks, yeah that makes sense! That in mind I thought to try something like
$$
\begin{align*}

[(d\omega) \wedge \eta]_{\mu_1 \dots \mu_{p+q+1}} = (-1)^{(p+1)q} [\eta \wedge (d\omega)]_{\mu_1 \dots \mu_{p+q+1}} &= (-1)^{(p+1)q} \frac{(p+q+1)!}{q! (p+1)!} \eta_{[\mu_1 \dots \mu_{q}} (d\omega)_{\mu_{q+1} \dots \mu_{p+q+1}]} \\ \\

&= (-1)^{(p+1)q} \frac{(p+q+1)!}{q! p!} \eta_{[\mu_1 \dots \mu_{q}} \partial_{\mu_{q+1}} \omega_{\mu_{q+2} \dots \mu_{p+q+1}]}

\end{align*}
$$I think that looks a bit more promising, I think the rest is just the product rule and a little bit of fiddling with the algebra, but I've got to run now so I'll try and finish and write up this one and the one with the pull-back a bit later this afternoon 😄

romsofia said:
I think you're making your life harder by interchanging between the notation of forms, and partial derivatives. I'll suggest writing ##\omega = a dx^i## and ##\eta = b dx^j## where a and b are 0-forms (fancy terminology for functions!).

Now, for ii), it becomes ##d (a dx^i \wedge b dx^j) = d (ab dx^i \wedge dx^j)...## and you can go from there [to make this proof easy, ask yourself what does ##d \omega## and ##d\eta## look like in this notation]

HINT: do you think the ##(-1)^p## comes from properties of the exterior derivative, or potentially another "operator" in the mix?

Is this for the case where ##\omega## and ##\eta## are both one-forms, opposed to general ##p## & ##q## forms?
 
  • #7
How would you suggest doing the third one? I'm not sure where to start... (well, apart from maybe from the definitions). Let ##(\partial_{(1)}, \dots \partial_{(n)})## be a basis of ##T_p M##, then if ##\omega## is a ##p##-form on ##N## and we've got a ##\varphi: M \rightarrow N##, then$$(\varphi^* \omega)_{\mu_1 \dots \mu_p} = (\varphi^* \omega)(\partial_{(\mu_1)}, \dots, \partial_{(\mu_p)}) = \omega(\varphi_{*} \partial_{(\mu_1)}, \dots, \varphi_{*} \partial_{(\mu_p)})$$and also$$d(\varphi^* \omega)_{\mu_1 \dots \mu_{p+1}} = (p+1) \partial_{[\mu_1} (\varphi^* \omega)_{\mu_2 \dots \mu_{p+1}]}$$whilst$$
\begin{align*}
\varphi^*(d\omega) &= (p+1) \varphi^*\left[ \frac{1}{p!} \partial_{\nu} \omega_{\mu_1, \dots, \mu_p} dx^{\nu} \wedge dx^{\mu_1} \wedge \dots \wedge dx^{\mu_p} \right] \\ \\

[\varphi^*(d\omega)]_{\mu_1, \dots, \mu_{p+1}} &= (d\omega) (\varphi_{*} \partial_{(\mu_1)}, \dots, \varphi_{*} \partial_{(\mu_{p+1})})
\end{align*}
$$I know that if ##y^{\alpha}## are some coordinates on ##N## then to push-forward the tangent basis of ##T_p M## I guess we can just do$$\varphi_{*} \partial_{(\mu_i)} = (\partial_{(\mu_i)})^{\mu} \frac{\partial y^{\alpha}}{\partial x^{\mu}} \partial_{\alpha} = \delta_{\mu_i}^{\mu} \frac{\partial y^{\alpha}}{\partial x^{\mu}} \partial_{\alpha} = \frac{\partial y^{\alpha}}{\partial x^{\mu_i}} \partial_{\alpha}$$To be honest, I'm not really sure where any of this is going 😣...

1615389283818.png
 
  • #8
It a Big Math conspiracy. You wouldn’t be having these problems taking derivatives with index notation. If you pull the veil open a little more, you will see that ict is also the way to go.o0)
 
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  • #9
caz said:
It a Big Math conspiracy. You wouldn’t be having these problems taking derivatives with index notation. If you pull the veil open a little more, you will see that ict is also the way to go.o0)

Well, unfortunately ict is a bit problematic in general manifolds :rolleyes:
 
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  • #10
Big Math has spent decades suppressing ict, and the reason we cannot use it today is that we have not spent the time to make it work for general manifolds. It’s a conspiracy. ?:)
 
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  • #11
etotheipi said:
Is this for the case where ##\omega## and ##\eta## are both one-forms, opposed to general ##p## & ##q## forms?
Nope! Just general q, and p forms (or r forms)! But why you may wonder?

So let me tell you, it's actually because of the result from i).

Quick "proof": Let ##\omega = a dx \wedge dy \wedge dz## an infamous 3 form that you know and love. Now, ask yourself, what is ## d \omega##? It's simply ##da \wedge dx \wedge dy \wedge dz + a d(dx) \wedge dy \wedge dz +...## [remember that you can think of ##\wedge## as multiplication] but using the result of i) it's easy to see that ##d \omega = da \wedge dx \wedge dy \wedge dz## [And note that now we are a 4 form, so the exterior dervative made us go up i.e ##d: \Lambda^3(M) \rightarrow \Lambda^4(M)##] and that's why when doing proofs such as these, it's easier to just write a general form as ##\omega = a dx^i##
 
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  • #12
Ah thanks, okay, so am I to understand the notation as$$\omega = a \mathrm{d}x^i \equiv a \mathrm{d}x^{\alpha_1} \wedge \dots \wedge \mathrm{d}x^{\alpha_p}$$in which case presumably$$\mathrm{d}\omega = \mathrm{d}a \wedge \mathrm{d}x^i \equiv \mathrm{d}a \wedge \mathrm{d}x^{\alpha_1} \wedge \dots \wedge \mathrm{d}x^{\alpha_p}$$due to the ##\mathrm{d}^2 = 0## property you mentioned. Yes I think that makes sense, the ##\mathrm{d}x^i## part was just throwing me off :smile:
 
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  • #13
Okay, here's my go at (ii) using @romsofia's magic method...$$\mathrm{d}\omega \wedge \eta = b \mathrm{d}a \wedge \mathrm{d}x^i \wedge \mathrm{d}x^j$$$$(-1)^p \omega \wedge \mathrm{d}\eta = (-1)^p a \mathrm{d}x^i \wedge \mathrm{d}b \wedge \mathrm{d}x^j$$We also have$$\begin{align*}

d(\omega \wedge \eta) = d(ab \mathrm{d}x^i \wedge \mathrm{d}x^j) &= a \mathrm{d}b \wedge \mathrm{d}x^i \wedge \mathrm{d}x^j + b \mathrm{d}a \wedge \mathrm{d}x^i \wedge \mathrm{d}x^j\\

&= (-1)^p a\mathrm{d}x^i \wedge \mathrm{d}b \wedge \mathrm{d}x^j + b \mathrm{d}a \wedge \mathrm{d}x^i \wedge \mathrm{d}x^j

\end{align*}$$where we picked up the ##(-1)^p## by changing the order of the ##p##-form ##\mathrm{d}x^i## and the ##1##-form ##\mathrm{d}b##. And that should do it! It's nice, I didn't realize it would be that simple :smile:

For (iii), how's best to go about dealing with the pull-back?
 
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FAQ: Help with a few annoying exterior derivatives

What are exterior derivatives?

Exterior derivatives are mathematical operators used in differential geometry and calculus to calculate the rate of change of a function in multiple dimensions.

How do exterior derivatives differ from ordinary derivatives?

Exterior derivatives are used for functions of multiple variables, while ordinary derivatives are used for functions of a single variable. Exterior derivatives also take into account the orientation and direction of the function, whereas ordinary derivatives do not.

What are some real-world applications of exterior derivatives?

Exterior derivatives are used in physics, engineering, and other scientific fields to model and analyze systems with multiple variables, such as fluid dynamics, electromagnetics, and general relativity.

What is the process for calculating exterior derivatives?

The process for calculating exterior derivatives involves taking the partial derivatives of a function with respect to each variable, combining them with the corresponding basis elements, and then taking the wedge product of these elements to obtain the final result.

Are there any limitations to using exterior derivatives?

While exterior derivatives are a powerful tool for solving problems in multiple dimensions, they can become complex and difficult to calculate for highly nonlinear systems. Additionally, they may not be applicable to all types of functions and may require certain conditions to be met for accurate results.

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