Help with abstract algebra proof

In summary, the conversation revolves around proving that a finite ring with identity has a characteristic n for some n>0. The main issue is determining the definition of addition and whether or not it involves numbers. However, since the ring is finite, it is established that there exists some integers n and m where n*1 is equal to m*1. This can be used to find the characteristic of the ring.
  • #1
jus8727
15
0
prove that a finite ring with identity has characteristic n for some n>0.
been trying for a while getting nowhere any ideas?
 
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  • #2
What have you been trying? The ring is FINITE. If f(n)=1+1+1+... n times, you can't get different values of f(n) for all n.
 
  • #3
you are assuming that we are dealing with numbers and with our normal addition. addition can be defined in any way. that's my problem just becuase it is a ring does not mean we are dealing with numbers or at the least the regular def of addition and multiplication
 
  • #4
Your ring has an identity. I called that '1'. Your ring also has an addition operation, I called that '+'. Why do you think I'm assuming anything?
 
  • #5
how do u know what happens when u add to numbers, how do u know that they get larger define larger. we may not be dealing with numbers all we know is that its a ring. we don't know what 1 is it is just the muliplictive inverse. it may not be a number
 
  • #6
Who said that anything was larger? I just said the f(n) couldn't ALL be different because your ring is finite. Besides 1 is a multiplicative identity, not an inverse. I really don't think you are in a mood to listen to any advice here.
 
  • #7
im in a good mood sorry if u get affended i really appericate the help but i dissagree i a few things
 
  • #8
how to u do know that 1+1+1...n times isn't just one? we don't know how addition is defined?
 
  • #9
Ok, sorry to be thin skinned, but you objecting to things I'm not even saying while not paying any attention to my original suggestion. Once more, your ring R is FINITE. That means f(n)=f(m) for some n and m. See post 2 for the definition of f(n). What does that tell you about characteristic? If you want to object to more things that's ok, because I'm not here. I'm going to bed.
 
  • #10
jus8727 said:
how to u do know that 1+1+1...n times isn't just one? we don't know how addition is defined?

If 1+1+... n times=1, then 1+1+.. n-1 times=0. We do know that much about how addition is defined. Characteristic!
 
  • #11
Since the ring is finite, we know that there exist some integers n, and m, such that n*1 is equal to m*1, and let n>m. (this was already suggested) Try taking the difference of these to find if there is a characteristic.
 

FAQ: Help with abstract algebra proof

What is abstract algebra?

Abstract algebra is a branch of mathematics that studies algebraic structures such as groups, rings, and fields. It is a generalization of elementary algebra and focuses on abstract concepts rather than specific numbers.

What is the purpose of writing a proof in abstract algebra?

The purpose of writing a proof in abstract algebra is to demonstrate the validity of a mathematical statement or theorem. It allows for a logical and systematic approach to solving problems and provides a deeper understanding of the underlying principles and concepts.

What are the key elements of a proof in abstract algebra?

The key elements of a proof in abstract algebra are definitions, axioms, previously proven theorems, and logical reasoning. These elements are used to build a logical argument that leads to a conclusion.

How can I improve my skills in writing abstract algebra proofs?

To improve your skills in writing abstract algebra proofs, it is important to have a strong foundation in the basic concepts and principles of abstract algebra. It is also helpful to practice writing proofs and to seek feedback from others. Reading and analyzing existing proofs can also be beneficial in understanding different techniques and approaches.

Are there any tips for writing clear and concise abstract algebra proofs?

Yes, there are a few tips for writing clear and concise abstract algebra proofs. First, it is important to clearly define all variables and concepts used in the proof. Additionally, using precise and concise language can make the proof easier to follow. It is also helpful to break down the proof into smaller steps and use logical transitions to connect them. Finally, providing visual aids, such as diagrams or equations, can make the proof more accessible and understandable.

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