Help with Setting Up/Simplifying Euler-Lagrangian

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In summary, the conversation discusses working through parts (a) and (b) and obtaining partial derivatives for part (c). The speaker simplifies their result to match a Wolfram widget, but notes that it differs slightly from the given answer. They also mention an unspecified area that is to be maximized in a problem involving a string with movable endpoints.
  • #1
stephenklein
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Homework Statement
Imagine we have a string of length ##l## in the ##x y## plane with endpoints ##x=-a## and ##x=a##. The endpoints can move to maximize this area, but the total length of the string is fixed.

a) Show that ##dx = \sqrt {1-y'^2}## where ##ds## is a tiny length of the curve such that ##ds = \sqrt {dx^2+dy^2}## as in class.

b) The area of the shaded rectangle above is ##ydx##, so the sum of all of those areas between ##x=-a## and ##x=a## gives us the total area. However, it’s easier to incorporate the fact that the length is fixed as ##l## by integrating with respect to s, the path length of moving along the string instead. Using the expression in part (a) to convert the ##ydx## integral to an integral with respect to ##ds##, express the area under the string.

c) Using the Euler-Lagrange equations prove that the optimal shape of the string is a semicircle.

A couple hints:

1) The Euler-Lagrange equation should yield ##\frac {dy} {ds} = \sqrt {1- \frac {y^2} {C^2}}##, which you can solve using separation of variables (and probably looking up the integral).

2) A semicircle of radius R has the equation ##x^2+y^2=R##
Relevant Equations
Euler-Lagrange equation: $$\frac {\partial f} {\partial y} - \frac {d} {ds} \frac {\partial f} {\partial y'} = 0$$
I was able to work through parts (a) and (b). For part (c), I got $$\frac {\partial f} {\partial y} = \sqrt {1-y'^2}$$ and $$\frac {\partial f} {\partial y'} = \frac {-y y'} {\sqrt {1-y'^2}}$$ Taking ##\frac {d} {ds}## of the latter, I used the product rule for all three terms ##y, y', (\sqrt{1-y'^2})^{-1/2}## and my result was $$\sqrt {1-y'^2} + \frac {y y''+y'^2} {\sqrt {1-y'^2}} + \frac {y y'^2 y''} {(1-y'^2)^{3/2}} = 0$$ I'm unsure (even more, skeptical) that this result simplifies to the one given in the question. I'm confident in everything up until the last derivative, which has a lot of moving parts. Any thoughts?

EDIT: I simplified the above result to ##y'=\sqrt {1+y y''}##, which agrees with a Wolfram widget I found that simplifies Lagrangian equations. I feel like I'm very close, but my result has a sum instead of a difference, and that pesky ##y''## term isn't in the given answer.
 
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  • #2
stephenklein said:
Homework Statement: Imagine we have a string of length ##l## in the ##x y## plane with endpoints ##x=-a## and ##x=a##. The endpoints can move to maximize this area
What area? You have only told us about a string of length ##l##. Which area is to be maximised?
 

Related to Help with Setting Up/Simplifying Euler-Lagrangian

What is Euler-Lagrangian?

Euler-Lagrangian is a mathematical technique used to solve problems involving the motion of physical systems. It is based on the principle of least action, which states that a system will follow a path that minimizes the total action of the system.

Why is Euler-Lagrangian important?

Euler-Lagrangian is important because it allows us to describe and solve problems involving the motion of physical systems in a mathematical and systematic way. It has applications in various fields such as physics, engineering, and economics.

How do I set up an Euler-Lagrangian problem?

To set up an Euler-Lagrangian problem, you need to first identify the relevant variables, such as position, velocity, and time, and determine the Lagrangian of the system. The Lagrangian is a function that describes the energy of the system. Then, you can use the Euler-Lagrange equations to solve for the equations of motion.

Can Euler-Lagrangian be simplified?

Yes, Euler-Lagrangian can be simplified by using symmetries and conserved quantities of the system. This can reduce the number of equations and make the problem easier to solve.

What are some common mistakes when using Euler-Lagrangian?

Some common mistakes when using Euler-Lagrangian include forgetting to include all the relevant forces in the Lagrangian, not using the correct boundary conditions, and making errors in the derivation of the Euler-Lagrange equations. It is important to double-check your work and make sure all steps are correct.

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