Housemilker Issues: Resolving a Carpet Wrinkle with the Old Landlord

[Monique]

I've moved to my new apartment What a hassle that is! I'm not planning on moving again any time soon.

The mysterious issues with the new landlord were resolved, but now I have an issue with the landlord of the old apartment. Apparently his wife has decided that there is a wrinkle in the carpet of the living room and that now I need to pay for an entire new carpet + installation costs. The carpet in there is 10 years old, what are they thinking?

And if we can't reach an agreement before Sunday midnight I need to pay a fine of several hundred euros a day.

Gee, what happened to common sense? I've proposed to let them fix the carpet for the cheapest price I could find, anyone wants to make a bet if I can win this deal? It's a deal with the Devil, I know.

 

[Evo]

I've moved to my new apartment What a hassle that is! I'm not planning on moving again any time soon.

The mysterious issues with the new landlord were resolved, but now I have an issue with the landlord of the old apartment. Apparently his wife has decided that there is a wrinkle in the carpet of the living room and that now I need to pay for an entire new carpet + installation costs. The carpet in there is 10 years old, what are they thinking?

And if we can't reach an agreement before Sunday midnight I need to pay a fine of several hundred euros a day.

Gee, what happened to common sense? I've proposed to let them fix the carpet for the cheapest price I could find, anyone wants to make a bet if I can win this deal? It's a deal with the Devil, I know.

There is nothing about "normal wear and tear"? Can't you only be held responsible for intentional damage? A carpet that old needs replacing anyway. What's in your lease?

 

[Monique]

In the rent there was a monthly payment for the furnishing and carpeting, in total I paid over 10,000 euros: enough to cover wear-and-tear of the furnished apartment. I called several legal advice offices, all say it's difficult to get my right and that the money I've paid doesn't cover "damages". There is no set life-time for a carpet, but 10% write-off per year really is reasonable (which means to carpet is worth 0).

I need to get myself an insurance, I can start a legal battle with these people but it will cost me too much time and money. At this point it's easier to buy them off. I wish there were walk-in courtrooms.

 

[Ms Music]

A WRINKLE? It probably just needs to be re-stretched. If they won't reason, tell them your attorney is ready to start working a few minutes after midnight Monday morning. They are looney. Not sure where you live or the local laws, but if I did that to MY tenant, I would expect a lawsuit. There should be laws to protect them, and laws to protect you.

 

[berkeman]

Be sure to take good pictures, in case you do end up in small claims court.

 

[Evo]

In the rent there was a monthly payment for the furnishing and carpeting, in total I paid over 10,000 euros: enough to cover wear-and-tear of the furnished apartment. I called several legal advice offices, all say it's difficult to get my right and that the money I've paid doesn't cover "damages". There is no set life-time for a carpet, but 10% write-off per year really is reasonable (which means to carpet is worth 0).

I need to get myself an insurance, I can start a legal battle with these people but it will cost me too much time and money. At this point it's easier to buy them off. I wish there were walk-in courtrooms.

I can't even imagine this, tenant's rights wouldn't allow this kind of thing here. A 10 year old carpet needs to be replaced, by the landlord. If these people are too cheap to replace a carpet that old (I would demand that the carpet be replaced if I was thinking of renting, here, where I live, the carpet is replaced every 5 years or sooner if there is damage), simply re-tacking the carpet will fix the "wrinkle".

 

[Monique]

A WRINKLE? It probably just needs to be re-stretched.

Yes, a wrinkle due to the glue having lost the attachment.

If they won't reason, tell them your attorney is ready to start working a few minutes after midnight Monday morning. They are looney. Not sure where you live or the local laws, but if I did that to MY tenant, I would expect a lawsuit. There should be laws to protect them, and laws to protect you.

I first had a hefty conversation where I explained the facts and that I wasn't going to pay anything, after which the threatening e-mail appeared. The problem is that it's very expensive to start a lawsuit here, one of the most expensive in the world.

 

[Monique]

Be sure to take good pictures, in case you do end up in small claims court.

I don't have the keys anymore, they came with the claim a day after we were in the apartment to hand over the keys (at which time no complaints were made). They even started threatening (after my refusal to pay) that I need to pay for the re-painting of the walls. Who knows what other false claims they will make, that the washer or dryer is broken? That the bed needs to be replaced? Good tip though, I'm taking pictures of the new apartment.

 

[Drakkith]

I wouldn't pay them unless they try to take you to court or something. Unless that's illegal or something. Without obvious damage that's your responsibility I can't see them having a leg to stand on legally.

 

[berkeman]

Is there any kind of online resource that discusses the quality of businesses? Here is one example Apartment Finder service for my area, which includes reviews:

http://www.apartmentratings.com/rate/CA-Newark.html

You could make it clear to the previous landlord that if they try to be unfair with you, it will end up on the Internet in places that can hurt their future business...

 

[rootX]

Is there any kind of online resource that discusses the quality of businesses? Here is one example Apartment Finder service for my area, which includes reviews:

http://www.apartmentratings.com/rate/CA-Newark.html

You could make it clear to the previous landlord that if they try to be unfair with you, it will end up on the Internet in places that can hurt their future business...

One of the reasons I moved away from a potential landlord was because I read an online review. Someone used her real name in a online negative review about her home.

 

[rhody]

Monique,

I feel your pain, but am not familiar with the way the legal system works in Europe. That being said, I have always had renters insurance, and had to use it once, it was a wise investment. It sounds like your previous landlords are jerks. If you know an attorney, you can pay a small fee or have them do it as a favor to send them a registered receipt return letter stating your position as to the vacated apartment condition and what steps you are willing to take if they sue you. If they have half a brain they will back off. If they are crazy you may have to take it to the next level. I give it a better than fifty fifty chance that it will work. Getting pictures of your new place is a good idea as well as keeping a list of what was damaged when you moved in. Good luck.

Rhody...

 

[edward]

In the rent there was a monthly payment for the furnishing and carpeting, in total I paid over 10,000 euros: enough to cover wear-and-tear of the furnished apartment. I called several legal advice offices, all say it's difficult to get my right and that the money I've paid doesn't cover "damages". There is no set life-time for a carpet, but 10% write-off per year really is reasonable (which means to carpet is worth 0).

I need to get myself an insurance, I can start a legal battle with these people but it will cost me too much time and money. At this point it's easier to buy them off. I wish there were walk-in courtrooms.

Glued down carpet tends to do this over time. There were no damages only normal wear.
Wrinkles can even be re glued.

 

[zoobyshoe]

I called legal aid about a landlord once and it turned out they were well aware of the landlord: people lodged complaints against him all the time.

If there's some way you could check and see if this landlord is chronically embroiled in disputes it would certainly help your credibility against them.

 

[DaveC426913]

Well, if anyone over there finds any answers about how it works, I'd be interested.

I stayed in a flat in London UK for a week and it was in atrocious condition. Broken slats in the bed, mold in the bathroom, no bathmat, no handles or antiskid in the tub, etc, etc.

I was hoping to find a regulating body to report them to - or at least a rate-your-landlord website - but never did.

 

[Monique]

Thanks for the sympathies! I haven't heard back yet.

You could make it clear to the previous landlord that if they try to be unfair with you, it will end up on the Internet in places that can hurt their future business...

I'm afraid that when I play it that/such a way, they'll have someone 'visit' me in the new apartment. If someone in the house misbehaved, they would give them the option "do you want to go through the stairways, or the window" and next call some hefty security guys. The relationship with the landlord was good, I really didn't expect problems.

I wouldn't pay them unless they try to take you to court or something. Unless that's illegal or something. Without obvious damage that's your responsibility I can't see them having a leg to stand on legally.

They have a security deposit (1 month rent) that I still need to get back.

 

[turbo]

Sorry, Monique. You will lose your security deposit unless you are willing to spend more than that to take your previous landlord to court. They know that you won't do that, so you are stuck. I hate creeps like that, but there is little you can do about their machinations other than to avoid them in the future.

 

[TheStatutoryApe]

Here in California landlords are required to replace the carpet after so many years by law. I believe it's five years here if you are a continuous resident. I believe it is even less if a resident moves out and a new resident moves in. Carpets are a typical ploy for trying to take security deposits though. Pretty much any place you move into around here has white carpets making it highly probable that obvious stains will be left when you move out.

Lets see...
http://www.tenancyagreementservice.co.uk/tenancy-agreements-faq.htm recommends using this agency for disputes over return of deposit. They claim to be "quicker" and "cheaper" than going to court though the landlord must agree to use the service.

Your new landlord is a lawyer. Maybe you can ask him for a bit of advice?

 

[I like Serena]

It's not unusual for a landlord to find damages that he wants to take out on the previous tenant.
That's what the 1-month-rent deposit is for (which is not high where I live, especially for a furnished place).
Usually there is always some stuff that is not quite in order when a tenant leaves, so that is not unreasonable.
Stuff that the landlord may need to fix before renting out again.
It may even cost him a month's rent if he cannot do it in a quick and timely fashion.

But where does a daily fine of several hundred euro's come from?
Is it not enough that they still hold your deposit?
Or do they want more?

 

[Q_Goest]

Sorry to hear about the hassle, Monique. I'd suggest getting a lawyer if need be.

Only other suggestion is that normally, if something wears out before its time and has to be replaced, the item is pro-rated. In other words, if it is supposed to last 15 years and it only lasts 10, you should only be responsible for the remaining 5 years, so you would only pay for 1/3 the cost, not the entire cost of the new carpet. And of course, you would only pay that portion of the price for a carpet of equal value.

Good luck!

 

[TheStatutoryApe]

It's not unusual for a landlord to find damages that he wants to take out on the previous tenant.
That's what the 1-month-rent deposit is for (which is not high where I live, especially for a furnished place).
Usually there is always some stuff that is not quite in order when a tenant leaves, so that is not unreasonable.
Stuff that the landlord may need to fix before renting out again.
It may even cost him a month's rent if he cannot do it in a quick and timely fashion.

But where does a daily fine of several hundred euro's come from?
Is it not enough that they still hold your deposit?
Or do they want more?

Probably for leaving the apartment in an "unleasable" condition.

 

[MarcoD]

The mysterious issues with the new landlord were resolved, but now I have an issue with the landlord of the old apartment. Apparently his wife has decided that there is a wrinkle in the carpet of the living room and that now I need to pay for an entire new carpet + installation costs. The carpet in there is 10 years old, what are they thinking?

What country are you in? I thought you were Dutch like me, but things differ between countries in Europe. (For instance, in Germany you're supposed to paint the walls leaving an apartment, whereas in the Netherlands you paint the walls moving in.)

 

[Monique]

Lets see...
http://www.tenancyagreementservice.co.uk/tenancy-agreements-faq.htm recommends using this agency for disputes over return of deposit. They claim to be "quicker" and "cheaper" than going to court though the landlord must agree to use the service.

Your new landlord is a lawyer. Maybe you can ask him for a bit of advice?

I already called the rental dispute hotline, but my rent was too high so they couldn't help me.

Indeed, he is a lawyer. But I don't think it is too smart to get my current landlord involved with problems with the ex-landlord The current landlord also is in neglect, I've asked for an apartment inspection several times, but it still hasn't happened. I've now taken pictures of all the defects and damages I could find.

But where does a daily fine of several hundred euro's come from?

It's because they want to claim that the apartment is in an unleasable condition, but they don't even have a renter for the house.

Only other suggestion is that normally, if something wears out before its time and has to be replaced, the item is pro-rated. In other words, if it is supposed to last 15 years and it only lasts 10, you should only be responsible for the remaining 5 years, so you would only pay for 1/3 the cost, not the entire cost of the new carpet. And of course, you would only pay that portion of the price for a carpet of equal value.

Indeed, that is also my thought. I didn't get a reply on my offer, so I went to their house for a visit. They say they don't care that the carpet is 10 years old, they're wining that it needs to be replaced. At least the landlord agreed that paying the new price will not be applied.

What country are you in? I thought you were Dutch like me, but things differ between countries in Europe. (For instance, in Germany you're supposed to paint the walls leaving an apartment, whereas in the Netherlands you paint the walls moving in.)

Yes, Dutch. I've never heard about painting the walls, what kind of an apartment/contract does that apply to?

 

[klimatos]

I've moved to my new apartment What a hassle that is! I'm not planning on moving again any time soon.

The mysterious issues with the new landlord were resolved, but now I have an issue with the landlord of the old apartment. Apparently his wife has decided that there is a wrinkle in the carpet of the living room and that now I need to pay for an entire new carpet + installation costs. The carpet in there is 10 years old, what are they thinking?

And if we can't reach an agreement before Sunday midnight I need to pay a fine of several hundred euros a day.

Gee, what happened to common sense? I've proposed to let them fix the carpet for the cheapest price I could find, anyone wants to make a bet if I can win this deal? It's a deal with the Devil, I know.

As a former apartment manager, I would consider a wrinkle in a ten-year-old carpet to be "normal wear and tear". After a ten-year tenant moved out, we always completely re-painted and re-carpeted. What does your old lease have to say on such things. Failing that, does you country have the equivalent of a "small claims court"?