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How Can Randomness Be Organized in Computer Systems?

In summary, randomness in computer systems can be organized through various methods, including the use of pseudorandom number generators (PRNGs), which produce sequences of numbers that approximate the properties of random numbers. Techniques such as entropy pooling and external entropy sources enhance randomness quality. Additionally, randomness can be structured for specific applications, like cryptography and simulations, by ensuring it meets certain statistical properties. Effective management of randomness is crucial for improving security, performance, and reliability in computing processes.
  • #1
Zargawee
Hello,This Is My First Topic For A Week ... Long TimeAnyway , Let Me Ask My Question.We Know That Computers Are Based On A Very Organized System , Which Is Out Of Random Actions ... Even Random Is Organized Here ... How ?Once While I Was Studying, I WAs Hearing Music On Winamp, The Songs Were Played In Shuffle Type , But When I Pressed The Previos Song button , EXACTELy The Previos Song Was Played , And Also The Seconf Previos Song Too ... And So On to the First One ... I Thought That The Program Has A Log File Or Something Like That , But I Tried This Also On A Regular Audio Player , And The SAme Thing Happened ... So How Can Random He Organized Since It's RANDOM ?--That's me!Click Please
 
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  • #2
Computers cannot actually understand random.When a computer is queried for a random number, it will review a list of random numbers, and simply takes one of them (this is how your winamp player finds thenextrandom song).But when it comes to the last random number, normally the programsavesthe list of all songs it played into a list, only for you to feel good when pressing the back button .But there are also functions to query the last random number, i don't know about all programming languages, but there is one in VB.You've gotta be japaneese !
 
  • #3
As far as I know, computers don't understand 'random' by themselves at all.When you're writing code which needs a random number, the computer accesses an algoritm to obtain a list of numbers. Those numbers may be random, but the computer follows specific rules to get them. If you run the program again, it will generate the same numbers in the exact same order.To get a 'true' random number you need to do something like add up all the seconds since the start of the year at the time call to the randomizer was made. You take that number and feed it into the 'randomizer algorithm' as an initial condition.That is how your computer gets random numbers.enigma"Life is the crummiest book I've ever read. There isn't a hook; just a lot of cheap shots, pictures to shock, and characters an amateur would never dream up."-Bad ReligionStranger than Fiction
 
  • #4
Greetings !quote:Originally posted by enigma:When you're writing code which needs a random number, the computer accesses an algoritm to obtain a list of numbers. Those numbers may be random, but the computer follows specific rules to get them. If you run the program again, it will generate the same numbers in the exact same order.I think you're wrong Enigma.A computer program can never give you truelyrandom numbers but the computer seems to be capableof doing that.As far as I've heard the basic "random" functions in a computerare the result of real counters that are started every timeyou turn on your computer.Also, I can think of quantum mechanical devices thatcan provide you true randomness. (Perhaps that is thetype of counters used, I don't know.)Live long and prosper.
 
  • #5
quote:Originally posted by drag:A computer program can never give you truelyrandom numbers but the computer seems to be capableof doing that.If you have a chaotic system (algorathim), then you can get random number with different seed numbers, and normally the seed number in therandomfunctions is the computer's up-time in seconds (maybe in milliseconds in other programming langauges), which is actually what you said in this parahraphquote:As far as I've heard the basic "random" functions in a computerare the result of real counters that are started every timeyou turn on your computer.This is also what enigma said (but in other concept, he used the other timer instead of the up-time timer).quote:Also, I can think of quantum mechanical devices thatcan provide you true randomness. (Perhaps that is thetype of counters used, I don't know.)I don't think that such devices will be used soon, it will be inconvenient to make a complete device only to generate random numbers, unless you have a PC with a job of that is really dependent on random numbers.You've gotta be japaneese !
 
  • #6
Then Random In Computers Is Not Acually True Random.I Think This Supports STAii'd Idea When he Said That Every Random Thing In Life Is Based On A Complicated System Of Equations.I Have Some Suggestion, As We Know , Living Cells Grows In A Random System , So , If We Based The System Of The Radom Computer On The Grouth Of The Cell , We Will Get Real Random Numbers.Stupid Idea I Think ...--That's me!Click Please
 
  • #7
Prepackaged random number generators are psuedo random, and do not rely on the computer's timer in any way. They give an option for a seed variable, which if it is equated to the computer's timer in some way, will make the variable approach true randomness.You can test this simply. Write a program to generate random numbers. Record a short list, say the first dozen or so. Compare your saved list to the newly generated ones. At some point, they will match. Record how many numbers you genrated at this point. Let it keep going. There will be another instance of list matching.I think you will find a list matching every 224or 232numbers. On my machine, using quickbasic, it was every 224.Njorl"Deceive everyone under 30!" -- um, Me
 
  • #8
quote:Also, I can think of quantum mechanical devices thatcan provide you true randomness. (Perhaps that is thetype of counters used, I don't know.)--------------------------------------------------------------------------------I don't think that such devices will be used soon, it will be inconvenient to make a complete device only to generate random numbers, unless you have a PC with a job of that is really dependent on random numbers.Sorry, but real random number generators do exist and are commercially available. They generate numbers based on Quantum Mechanical events rather than equations and can be plugged into your computer. Unless somebody comes out with a convincing way to get around the uncertainty principle, they are here to stay.When in trouble,When in doubt,Run in circles,Scream & Shout!
 
  • #9
Actually, this reminds me of a funny story. It seems a college student made a run on some of the older casinos in the midwest and canada. He used his desktop to do Chaotic equations based records he obtained of when the power went out at any given casino. This, of course, reset the random number generators in the older slot machines. He went into the casinos when his equations said the time was ripe, felt the machines to see which were warm and had therefore been used, and cashed in $70,000.00 over summer vacation.The casinos, of course, took him to court. They lost. He did nothing illegal the court decided, it was up to the casinos to update their equipment.When in trouble,When in doubt,Run in circles,Scream & Shout!
 
  • #10
quote:Originally posted by wuliheron:quote:Also, I can think of quantum mechanical devices thatcan provide you true randomness. (Perhaps that is thetype of counters used, I don't know.)--------------------------------------------------------------------------------I don't think that such devices will be used soon, it will be inconvenient to make a complete device only to generate random numbers, unless you have a PC with a job of that is really dependent on random numbers.Sorry, but real random number generators do exist and are commercially available. They generate numbers based on Quantum Mechanical events rather than equations and can be plugged into your computer. Unless somebody comes out with a convincing way to get around the uncertainty principle, they are here to stay.When i said "i don't think such devices will be used soon", i meant widely-used (in almost eveey PC).If you read the paragraph i wrote till the end, you will see "unless you have a PC with a job that really depends on random numbers", and this is the case where people will use the Quatumradomness generator( i am not sure what you people would call it ).I apologize for being un-clear, and i will make my best to make clear of what i mean next time.You've gotta be japaneese !
 
  • #11
I think sometime within the next ten years such devices could become common. In fact, they likely will be built into home computers. If for no other reason then as a means of maintaining privacy and combating hackers and viruses. Quantum Dots in particular are demonstrating a great deal of compatability with traditional silicone devices and could produce the first generation full scale quantum computer.Considering that quantum computers work factorially, their obvious advantages in sustaining Moores law are incomparable. No doubt the US government and others will want to delay the widespread introduction of such computers. However, recent papers have also demonstrated that neural networks applied to quantum computers also possess properties and abilities that ordinary networks do not.Currently the mathematics and machines necessary to analyze and describe quantum neural networks either do not exist or are secret. Many hope that the development of a theory of everything will provide rudamentary insight into how to go about developing such mathematics and organizing machines along more organic lines. Already the basic layout of the mammalian brain and its operating principles have finally been discovered. Imagine a future where your home computer is not simply random, but has attitude as well.When in trouble,When in doubt,Run in circles,Scream & Shout!
 

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