How Dangerous Can a Skiing Concussion Be?

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In summary: It sounded like a drum cymbal. She survived but had a traumatic brain injury. She's since founded the Head Injury Foundation.In summary, Natasha Richardson was skiing when she apparently took a spill and received a concussion. She initially felt fine, but her trainer and others insisted she see a doctor and she eventually went to hospital. She had apparently suffered a severe brain injury and died this evening.
  • #1
Astronuc
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Two days ago, on 16 March 2009, Natasha Richardson was injured in a skiing accident at the Mont Tremblant Resort. She apparently took a spill and received a concussion. It seems that she initially felt fine, but her trainer and others insisted she see a doctor and she eventually went to hospital. She had apparently suffered a severe brain injury.

She died this evening.

Natasha Jane Richardson is the wife of actor Liam Neeson, with whom she had two sons. She is the daughter of the actress Vanessa Redgrave and the director/producer Tony Richardson. She was 45 yrs old.

I've always enjoyed her performances.

RIP Ms. Richardson. :frown:
 
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  • #2
Just heard, what a tragedy. My condolences to family, and loved ones.
 
  • #3
Wow, fell on a bunny slope under the guidance of a trainer. Did her head hit a rock? What a tragic, senseless accident. I feel for her two young sons.

Just makes you realize that there may never be a tomorrow to realize your dreams.
 
  • #5
I've been a skier since I was...seven or eight? When I was a kid, no one ever, ever wore a helmet - it was unheard of. Now, about 50% of people on the slopes wear them.

Please, PFers...you spend so much time filling your beautiful brains with ideas, and training those brains to do calesthenics most people find spectacular! Please, if you ski (or bike, or skateboard, or...whatever), wear one of these:

http://img3.imageshack.us/img3/5374/skihelmet.jpg

That's my ski helmet (yes that's a band-aid). Protect your brain, for crying out loud! Don't be an idiot!
 
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  • #6
lisab said:
That's my ski helmet (yes that's a band-aid). Protect your brain, for crying out loud! Don't be an idiot!

It's too rare IMO - something that wouldn't happen in next many decades.
 
  • #8
Most of the deaths here are avalanches off-piste - especially snow mobillers.
They reported 30deaths in the region in the last 20years, 14 due to head injuries of which 2 were wearing helmets - the calls for mandatory helmet laws started as soon as the first politician's public relations people heard the news.
 
  • #9
I don't know that I'm ever going to wear a helmet skiing. I'd like to hear the circumstances of this incident, but most seem to be due to stupidity/irresponsibility. So you have direct control over your risk factor.
 
  • #10
russ_watters said:
I don't know that I'm ever going to wear a helmet skiing. I'd like to hear the circumstances of this incident, but most seem to be due to stupidity/irresponsibility. So you have direct control over your risk factor.

You're going to wear a knit cap anyway, right? I can tell you from personal experience, the helmet is actually more comfortable than a knit cap. It doesn't itch. And, it pulls the goggles off of your face just a little bit so fogging is no longer a problem.

What's the downside? A knock to your pride?
 
  • #11
lisab said:
What's the downside? A knock to your pride?
It's not about pride. I'm a creature of habit and very particular about doing things the way i want.
 
  • #12
I'm very curious to hear the specifics of this situation as they come out.

I don't wear a helmet while skiing, but wear a helmet while snowboarding.
 
  • #13
Ski helmets are great. Safety aside, they keep you warm, block the wind, and stay in place better than warm hats. They don't block your peripheral vision, and they stick right to your head well enough that you don't even notice it's there. Highly recommend to anyone who skis or snowboards.
 
  • #14
Astronuc said:
the wife of actor Liam Neeson

He played a widower in Love, Actually. Cheap association, but I can't stop it.
 
  • #15
Evo said:
Wow, fell on a bunny slope under the guidance of a trainer. Did her head hit a rock? What a tragic, senseless accident. I feel for her two young sons.

Just makes you realize that there may never be a tomorrow to realize your dreams.
Without knowing exactly where she fell and hit her head, it is likely impossible to know what happened. All it takes is a critical blow to the a critical spot on the head.

There's some discussion in this article, but no specifics.
Could a Helmet Have Saved Natasha Richardson?
http://news.yahoo.com/s/time/08599188611500


Another article mentioned that one of her passions was food. She was a guest judge on "Top Chef".


My mom used to nurse people with head trauma. One of the nurses she work with hit her head on the corner of a tall delivery cart in the hallway of the hospital. The cart was being pushed along an intersecting hallway and she walked into it as it came around a corner. Besides a painful bump, she seemed to feel fine. Well she later developed a headache, slipped into a coma and died. That was pretty profound for me since I've received numerous hard smacks or bangs to the head over the years, including a time when I flipped off a bicycle and landed head-first on the sidewalk (when I was about 14 or 15).

'Minor' head injuries can turn serious rapidly, experts say
http://www.cnn.com/2009/HEALTH/03/18/brain.injury/index.html

blow to the head that at first seems minor and does not result in immediate pain or other symptoms can in fact turn out to be a life-threatening brain injury, experts tell CNN.
. . . .
Actress Natasha Richardson was talking and joking after she fell Monday during a beginner ski lesson, according to officials at the Canadian resort where she was staying. But soon after she returned to her room she complained of head pain and was taken to a nearby hospital, then to a larger medical center in Montreal. She was flown by private jet Tuesday to a New York hospital.

"A patient can appear so deceivingly normal at first," said Graffagnino, director of Duke University Medical Center's Neurosciences Critical Care Unit. "But they actually have a brain bleed and as the pressure builds up, they'll experience classic symptoms of a traumatic brain injury."
. . . .
 
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  • #16
Some of the most serious injuries on the mountain (even on a beginner's slope) can be suffered by beginners who have not yet learned how to control their falls. I have hauled people off mountains in a toboggan that had suffered hyper-extensions, sprains, and broken bones while falling on pretty gentle slopes.

My condolences to her family.
 
  • #17
Astronuc said:
Without knowing exactly where she fell and hit her head, it is likely impossible to know what happened. All it takes is a critical blow to the a critical spot on the head.

There's some discussion in this article, but no specifics.
Could a Helmet Have Saved Natasha Richardson?
http://news.yahoo.com/s/time/08599188611500

They say she was healthy but I wonder if she had any other problem/accident unrelated to the skiing accident.

But, her accident scenario doesn't look really dangerous:
It's similar to slipping and falling on a slippery hard floor.
 
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  • #18
rootX said:
They say she was healthy but I wonder if she had any other problem/accident unrelated to the skiing accident.
But if one reads the other article I cited, 'Minor' head injuries can turn serious rapidly, experts say
( http://www.cnn.com/2009/HEALTH/03/18...ury/index.html ), looking fine (from the outside) often happens with a head injury. Any rupture of a blood vessel within the cranium is not readily apparent, and can only be discerned by monitoring the person or doing a scan with some diagnostic machine like an MRI.

Richardson apparently claimed to feel fine immediately after the accident, but within an hour she was not feeling well and complained of a headache. As it was, she went to a local hospital, Centre Hospitalier Laurentien, after complaining of feeling unwell, and was transferred from there to the Hôpital du Sacré-Coeur de Montréal in critical condition. She should have been sent to Montréal.

The conseqences of such an accident depend on where on the head receives the blow and the age and health of a patient. The older one is, the less elastic the blood vessels. I've definitely noticed a difference when I get injured these days, as opposed to 30 years ago, especially when I receive a blow to the head. The last time I got hit in the head, I saw stars.
 
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  • #19
Remembering Natasha Richardson, 1963-2009
http://www.salon.com/ent/feature/2009/03/19/natasha_richardson/
 
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  • #20
Autopsy: Natasha Richardson died from hitting head
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/obit_natasha_richardson
. . . . The cause of death was epidural hematoma (bleeding between the skull and the brain's covering), said Ellen Borakove, a spokeswoman for the New York City medical examiner's office. Richardson was not wearing a helmet and the death was ruled an accident.

An epidural hematoma is often caused by a skull fracture. The bleeding causes a blood clot that puts pressure on the brain. That pressure can force the brain downward to press on the brain stem that controls breathing and other vital functions, causing coma or death. Frequently, surgeons cut off part of the skull to give the brain room to swell.

. . . .
The probability of an epidural or subdural hematoma should have been cause enough to send straight away to hospital with the appropriate TBI care unit.
 
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  • #21
So senseless, access to proper medical treatment quite possibly could have saved her life. Why did the paramedics spend 30 minutes when they knew it was a head trauma? Why couldn't/didn't the first hospital do something to relieve pressure on her brain until she could be sent to a more advanced facility, or did they not even have the means to check that?
I was watching Trauma ER the other day and they removed part of a guy's skull to save his life until they could get him into surgery and get a neurosurgeon. Sounds like nothing was done for 4 hours after the 911 call from her hotel, that's incredible.

Doctor: Quebec's lack of medical helicopters may have cost Natasha Richardson crucial moments

http://www.chicagotribune.com/entertainment/sns-ap-natasha-richardson,0,7834944.story
 
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  • #22
Evo said:
So senseless, access to proper medical treatment quite possibly could have saved her life. Why did the paramedics spend 30 minutes when they knew it was a head trauma? Why couldn't/didn't the first hospital do something to relieve pressure on her brain until she could be sent to a more advanced facility, or did they not even have the means to check that?
I was watching Trauma ER the other day and they removed part of a guy's skull to save his life until they could get him into surgery and get a neurosurgeon. Sounds like nothing was done for 4 hours after the 911 call from her hotel, that's incredible.

Doctor: Quebec's lack of medical helicopters may have cost Natasha Richardson crucial moments

http://www.chicagotribune.com/entertainment/sns-ap-natasha-richardson,0,7834944.story
Coulda, shoulda, woulda, blah. Don't let speculation make you sad. That's senseless. I mean, what about the hour she spent in her hotel room refusing medical help from the first ambulance that came as soon as they got to the bottom of the hill?

http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?id=talk-and-die-richardson
Richardson reportedly refused medical care when an ambulance arrived and went back to her hotel room. About an hour later, however, Lortie said that Richardson complained of a severe headache; she was rushed by ambulance to Hôpital Sacré-Coeur in Montreal, where Neeson met her after flying in from Toronto where he was filming a movie.
 
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  • #23
Brilliant! said:
Coulda, shoulda, woulda, blah. Don't let speculation make you sad. That's senseless. I mean, what about the hour she spent in her hotel room refusing medical help from the first ambulance that came as soon as they got to the bottom of the hill?

http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?id=talk-and-die-richardson

Prevents these kind of accidents in future. I was reading some comments somewhere and one Ski trainer told about a similar incident but it was only vomiting... here:
1. Blame goes to herself first
2. then the ski trainer
3. then the hospital

But, I think she was just too unfortunate. She had like three opportunities for saving her life and she lost all of them.

I don't like these high profile deaths - media and public reaction. But, good thing is that death causes are scrutinized more than ever and thus prevented in future
 
  • #24
Brilliant! said:
Coulda, shoulda, woulda, blah. Don't let speculation make you sad. That's senseless. I mean, what about the hour she spent in her hotel room refusing medical help from the first ambulance that came as soon as they got to the bottom of the hill?

It's possible that her bad judgement was caused by her injury.
 
  • #25
lisab said:
It's possible that her bad judgement was caused by her injury.

True, but when you are a celebrity and you insist you are OK it's a little harder for those concerned about you to over rule.

Not every paramedic is House.
 
  • #26
Most head trauma patients feel fine initially, paramedics know this. When I fell and hit my head and someone called an ambulance, the paramedics refused to leave without taking me to the hospital for a scan. I argued with them for almost 45 minutes before I realized they were taking me even if it meant by force.

The paramedics left without even speaking to her.

The point of my post was that Quebec has inadequate facilities for trauma, but I guess no one read it.
 
  • #27
lisab said:
It's possible that her bad judgement was caused by her injury.

I've taken a number of bad falls in my life mostly due to riding motorcycles. In one case I went down at about 50mph and hit my head on a rock, which cracked the helmet.

Whenever I got hurt, my first response was to deny that I was hurt. I remember one time when I was insisting that I was fine and telling everyone to leave me alone just before I passed out.

We even see this sort of thing in more benign situations. It is common for someone who is worried about their health to avoid the doctor and deny the symptoms. Tsu's mother, who was a nurse, died that way.
 
  • #28
Are you exaggerating? Head trauma is serious, but hospitals and paramedic companies would likely be too concerned about lawsuits to actually use force against a human who seems completely coherent. I'm pretty sure that the law says that anyone who is capable of making informed consent is responsible for their own well-being. But, if someone is obviously acting like their mental health is in danger, they can be hospitalized without consent. This may have actually had something to do with the first paramedics letting her be. If she was acting completely normal, her refusal would have been taken seriously.
 
  • #29
Brilliant! said:
Are you exaggerating? Head trauma is serious, but hospitals and paramedic companies would likely be too concerned about lawsuits to actually use force against a human who seems completely coherent. This may have actually had something to do with the first paramedics letting her be.

Very true here in the States...but Canada doesn't have the same liability laws we do.
 
  • #30
lisab said:
Very true here in the States...but Canada doesn't have the same liability laws we do.
Informed consent regulations seem to be very similar in US and Canada, as well as Australia.

http://www.ccachiro.org/client/cca/cca.nsf/web/Chapter+1+-+Informed+Consent!OpenDocument
 
  • #31
Brilliant! said:
Informed consent regulations seem to be very similar in US and Canada, as well as Australia.
But in Canaa and Australia anyone trying to sue the paramedics for forcing them to go to hospiial is going to get laughed out of court.

It came up here with the local mountain rescue team - they have no legal power to force anyone to be rescued but as they said, who is the RCMP going to side with?
 
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  • #32
Brilliant! said:
Are you exaggerating? Head trauma is serious, but hospitals and paramedic companies would likely be too concerned about lawsuits to actually use force against a human who seems completely coherent. I'm pretty sure that the law says that anyone who is capable of making informed consent is responsible for their own well-being. But, if someone is obviously acting like their mental health is in danger, they can be hospitalized without consent. This may have actually had something to do with the first paramedics letting her be. If she was acting completely normal, her refusal would have been taken seriously.
Did you bother at all to read the article I posted about the lack of life flight helicopters and trauma facilities in Quebec?
 
  • #33
Evo said:
Did you bother at all to read the article I posted about the lack of life flight helicopters and trauma facilities in Quebec?
Yes. But regardless of terrible rescue capabilities, speculation in the form of "couldas" and "shouldas" is a pointless thing to waste your emotions on. Unless you'd like to delve into some string theory and discuss the possibility of another universe where Bizarro Canada has the most amazing medical facilities in the known gragnar, and the tripedal people of Queb-91-479 never have to worry about trauma to their spikbar.
 
  • #34
Brilliant! said:
Yes. But regardless of terrible rescue capabilities, speculation in the form of "couldas" and "shouldas" is a pointless thing to waste your emotions on. Unless you'd like to delve into some string theory and discuss the possibility of another universe where Bizarro Canada has the most amazing medical facilities in the known gragnar, and the tripedal people of Queb-91-479 never have to worry about trauma to their spikbar.
Well, you certainly seem to completely miss the issue of adequate care for trauma victims and your post is nonsensical and off topic.

I however, would like to discuss the situation there. So please do not respond unless you have something of value to say on the subject.
 
  • #35
Adequate care for trauma victims would involve a complete revamping of a socialized health care system. Either levy more taxes, or change ideologies.

Or did you mean you wanted to discuss my sensibility?
 

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