How Do Charge and Mass Affect Ion Acceleration in an Electric Field?

Click For Summary
The discussion centers on how the charge and mass of ions affect their acceleration in an electric field, specifically comparing 3H+ and 3He+. Despite initial assumptions that both ions would have the same flight time due to equal mass, it is clarified that both ions have the same charge of +1, resulting in equal potential energy and kinetic energy upon acceleration. The confusion arises from the differing number of protons in each ion, but the charge, indicated by the '+' symbol, is what determines their behavior in the electric field. Ultimately, the conclusion is that both ions will have the same flight time as they possess equal charge and mass. Understanding that ionic charge equates to the net charge, regardless of the number of protons, is key to resolving the question.
mpswee2
Messages
6
Reaction score
0

Homework Statement



Assuming equal masses, how would the detection times of 3H+ and 3He+ compare [as they're both accelerated toward a detector in the direction of a constant E field]?

A) 3H+ would have a longer flight time than 3He+.

B) 3H+ would have a shorter flight time than 3He+.

C) 3H+ would have the same flight time as 3He+.

D) The radioactive 3H+ would always decay before detection.

Homework Equations



Now, I initially thought it was C: both would have the same flight time since they have equal masses and, therefore, equal velocities once PE (PE=QV) is completely converted to kinetic energy (v= sqrt(2KE/m)).

But I realized-- in an 'aha!' moment-- that, although they have equal masses, they have UNequal charge, Q. The helium ion has 2 protons and 1 e-, while the H+ ion has 1 proton and no e-. If the Q of He+ and H+ are not equal, their initial PE = QV will not be equal, so their KE will not be equal. Because He+ has a higher Q due to 2 protons, the He+ has higher initial PE and greater KE after acceleration. It's flight time to reach detector should be less (ie faster travel) than H+, which has less KE.

But C was the correct answer. Could someone point out where my reasoning is flawed? Apparently He+ and H+ have equal Q-values. Is this because they're both +1 cations? Does the ionic charge alone always tell us a particle's charge? As I understood, simply losing 1 e- (to form +1 cation) won't always equalize the charges between ions due to differential number of protons. The additional protons in He+ should account for a different (greater) overall Q compared to in H+-- no??

I guess, in the end, I'm curious how you determine an ions Q. Is Q always going to equal the overall ionic charge-- or do we need to take the number of protons into account when we have ions with equal charges?

Thanks a lot.

The Attempt at a Solution

 
Physics news on Phys.org
3H+ has two neutrons, one proton and no electrons. 3He+ has two protons, one neutron and one electron. The net charge of both is the same, +1. The masses are almost (but not exactly) equal - but you are told to assume they are. Hence, C. The '+' symbol is indicating total charge.
 
The book claims the answer is that all the magnitudes are the same because "the gravitational force on the penguin is the same". I'm having trouble understanding this. I thought the buoyant force was equal to the weight of the fluid displaced. Weight depends on mass which depends on density. Therefore, due to the differing densities the buoyant force will be different in each case? Is this incorrect?

Similar threads

Replies
8
Views
2K
Replies
1
Views
1K
  • · Replies 12 ·
Replies
12
Views
2K
  • · Replies 28 ·
Replies
28
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
1K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
Replies
23
Views
4K
  • · Replies 10 ·
Replies
10
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
3K
  • · Replies 9 ·
Replies
9
Views
8K